Melee Gaming

cRPG => Suggestions Corner => The Chamber of Tears => Topic started by: Jona on November 13, 2017, 05:58:59 PM

Title: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 13, 2017, 05:58:59 PM
After this poll (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/level-revert-poll/) was conducted, people got excited to be able to do battle like it was the good old days again. The assumption that came along with that is that we'd all be able to use the same builds we had pre-patch of destiny, if not a more advanced one since some people may have accumulated enough xp to level up more since then. However, we instead are given a completely new leveling system with nothing but gimped versions of the characters we had grown accustomed to. Over 80% of the active community voted in favor of a revert (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/revert), while no one voted for an entirely new xp system. If you're trying to do some partial-wipe bs, at least ask around a little bit on the forums here to get some feedback before just going ahead and pulling the trigger. If the apparent goal here is to revitalize the mod, then you should first and foremost focus on getting the vets to return, something that a wipe is likely not going to help with as much. A wipe favors newcomers, something it is highly doubtful we will ever see again unless we can draw back in the vets to maintain a decent population in the meantime.

Regardless of whether or not anything should even be wiped, if you're gonna do a partial wipe at least do the smarter (although still rather foolish) thing and take away all our looms while not touching our levels. Having just one more level makes all the difference in available playstyles, and by extension having 2 or 3 more is even more impactful. Players who were previously level 36 (pre-patch of destiny) are now level 33 at best, and leveling beyond that point is quite literally impossible. On the flip side, looms have almost no affect on the way you play whatsoever, they literally only make you artificially better by giving you an advantage in survivability, damage-dealing, etc. If someone is level 35 and running around in the same armor loomed and unloomed, nothing changes other than the fact they might be able to tank an extra hit when wearing it loomed. However if you've got someone running around at level 32 compared to 35, they'll be noticeably slower, or weaker, or outright unable to use the same items as the higher leveled version of themselves. The point I'm trying to make here, is ya done goofed. You took away our ability to customize our characters and play the way we want, ruined any hybridization opportunities that may have existed beforehand, and for what reason, exactly? In the hopes that you could attract some noobs who will still hop on and see people using looms and go crying back to native? If you want to help noobs, remove looms. If you want to keep vets from coming back, take away our levels.

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Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Bittersteel on November 13, 2017, 06:11:50 PM
dude shut up you don't play the game so your opinion is irrelevant

/s
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 14, 2017, 12:49:18 AM
After this poll (http://forum.melee.org/general-discussion/level-revert-poll/) was conducted, people got excited to be able to do battle like it was the good old days again. The assumption that came along with that is that we'd all be able to use the same builds we had pre-patch of destiny, if not a more advanced one since some people may have accumulated enough xp to level up more since then. However, we instead are given a completely new leveling system with nothing but gimped versions of the characters we had grown accustomed to. Over 80% of the active community voted in favor of a revert (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/revert), while no one voted for an entirely new xp system.
The language I used was poor, I'll give you that. When I said "essentially" changing back to pre-PoD, I meant that retiring would once again be done at level 31 or so. The only thing that has been changed from pre-patch of destiny is the post-retirement levels. Given the assumptions we made didn't match up, in the future I'll make sure to be crystal clear in my intentions.

If you're trying to do some partial-wipe bs, at least ask around a little bit on the forums here to get some feedback before just going ahead and pulling the trigger. If the apparent goal here is to revitalize the mod, then you should first and foremost focus on getting the vets to return, something that a wipe is likely not going to help with as much. A wipe favors newcomers, something it is highly doubtful we will ever see again unless we can draw back in the vets to maintain a decent population in the meantime.
For the near future I have no plans for "partial-wipe bs." I don't see how what I've done so far can be considered close to that, maybe there's been more miscommunication. Of course, my goal is to get the mod back on its feet. One of the reasons I decided I decided to revert levels was that is exciting to a degree and could potentially draw back in players who left due to the introduction of PoD leveling system. Hypothetical, sure, but worth a shot. Again, the wipe is still under discussion. In the case that some form of a wipe does happen (not saying that it will or will not), it would be sometime early 2018.

Regardless of whether or not anything should even be wiped, if you're gonna do a partial wipe at least do the smarter (although still rather foolish) thing and take away all our looms while not touching our levels. Having just one more level makes all the difference in available playstyles, and by extension having 2 or 3 more is even more impactful.

As said before, wipe is not planned for now.

Players who were previously level 36 (pre-patch of destiny) are now level 33 at best, and leveling beyond that point is quite literally impossible. On the flip side, looms have almost no affect on the way you play whatsoever, they literally only make you artificially better by giving you an advantage in survivability, damage-dealing, etc. If someone is level 35 and running around in the same armor loomed and unloomed, nothing changes other than the fact they might be able to tank an extra hit when wearing it loomed. However if you've got someone running around at level 32 compared to 35, they'll be noticeably slower, or weaker, or outright unable to use the same items as the higher leveled version of themselves. The point I'm trying to make here, is ya done goofed.

Yes, it is now very difficult to level past 33, and yes the new post-31 leveling system is now different from pre-PoD. I changed it to this because, under the old pre-PoD system, theoretically a player could have their levels reverted back to 35, which was up until last weekend the retiring point for builds. My goal in this level revert was to improve balance, which has been strained by the high-level builds of PoD. Having players running around at level 35, a post-retirement level in PoD, completely defeats that purpose.

Admittedly, the system that I concocted isn't perfect. But, do remember that, in PoD, leveling past 38 was quite literally impossible. 38 itself was hard enough to get to, if not also impossible. The point of this patch is to weaken high-level builds that can abuse the combat system, and to lessen the effects of "OP" items. Even if the current leveling system is a bit too harsh in accomplishing that goal, here's the thing: it can be tweaked.

You took away our ability to customize our characters and play the way we want, ruined any hybridization opportunities that may have existed beforehand, and for what reason, exactly? In the hopes that you could attract some noobs who will still hop on and see people using looms and go crying back to native? If you want to help noobs, remove looms. If you want to keep vets from coming back, take away our levels.

Item difficulties were lowered to accommodate lower levels, and can be lowered further. So, you can still customize your character. You can still play the way you want. You can still use hybrids. If this change has disproportionate affect on those, then I will think of ways to encourage them with in the new system.

The thing is, there is no way to quantify the effect that this change has on customization, hybridization, or anything like that until one plays the game with others, and sees for themselves how the balance compares to other players, and other builds.


Basically, all this shit is a work in progress. The post-31 xp for levels can change, item difficulties can change, etc. But the best thing to do for the mod right now isn't to go onto the forums and share opinions about the state of the game, it's to play the game, get it populated, and actually try out the new things that have been implemented. Then, if you want to share your opinion, at least it'll be informed, and as a result I'll be better able to adapt the state of the game if a problem area is brought up.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 14, 2017, 01:29:25 AM
The language I used was poor, I'll give you that. When I said "essentially" changing back to pre-PoD, I meant that retiring would once again be done at level 31 or so. The only thing that has been changed from pre-patch of destiny is the post-retirement levels. Given the assumptions we made didn't match up, in the future I'll make sure to be crystal clear in my intentions.

You might want to try your hand at politics if that's how you interpret the situation.

You: "Hey guys, who wants to play crpg as it was in 2014?"
Crpgers: "Me! Me! Me! Me! not me Me! Me! Me! Me! not me"
You: "K cool, I've implemented a brand new system instead."
Crpgers: "...da fuck?"
You: "Lol you just misinterpreted me bros xD"

For the near future I have no plans for "partial-wipe bs." I don't see how what I've done so far can be considered close to that, maybe there's been more miscommunication.

You don't see how knocking 1, 2, 3 levels off of our characters isn't essentially the same as a partial wipe (not including the levels lost converting from the PoD system back to "the old system")? Okay then... let me put it this way. You wiped out some of our progress. Previously level 36 characters are now 33. That's a partial wipe, not of looms, but of xp.

One of the reasons I decided I decided to revert levels was that is exciting to a degree and could potentially draw back in players who left due to the introduction of PoD leveling system. Hypothetical, sure, but worth a shot. Again, the wipe is still under discussion.


Sure, it would have been exciting to play with the old xp system again, aka what we were expecting from a revert. What you did was not a revert, but merely the introduction of an entirely new xp system.

Yes, it is now very difficult to level past 33, and yes the new post-31 leveling system is now different from pre-PoD. I changed it to this because, under the old pre-PoD system, theoretically a player could have their levels reverted back to 35, which was up until last weekend the retiring point for builds. My goal in this level revert was to improve balance, which has been strained by the high-level builds of PoD. Having players running around at level 35, a post-retirement level in PoD, completely defeats that purpose.

Having a soft leveling cap isn't a problem. It was nearly impossible to level past 36 in the OG system, and save for maybe one very "dedicated" person, no one did. The only problem with the new system is that the soft cap is at 33, not 36 where it was promised to be. You get a lot of mileage from those last few points and all this patch does is disallow further customization of your build beyond a standard level 31 one. The PoD didn't break the game since everyone was a high level, it broke the game because certain people could be SUPER high level. The difference between 36 and 38 is huge, the 9th or 10th point in athletics really makes things start to get all fucky, and that is something that is simply not often, if ever, attainable with the OG leveling system. Additionally, your goal with this patch is outright wrong. If what you're after is a populated server, that is your goal. Not perceived in-game 'balance.' Balance has never been what crpg was known for, nor what kept us all playing. It somehow managed to strike a nearly-perfect harmony of imbalance, where everything simultaneously seems broken and not. In-game balance is something that devs at triple A studios still can't achieve even after working in the industry 30+ years. Don't come in here thinking that you have the answer Tydeus and San couldn't come up with before. Face the facts, it is nearly-impossible to balance this game, and that's perfectly fine, so long as we can provide a fun playground regardless. Unfortunately for this game's history, most attempts at balance end up making the game all around less fun for certain affected parties, and in some cases, everyone.

Item difficulties were lowered to accommodate lower levels, and can be lowered further. So, you can still customize your character. You can still play the way you want. You can still use hybrids.

You don't know the way I want to play. I happen to be able to want to use the same build I had pre-PoD. Something I am currently unable to do. Therefore, this statement is outright false.

But the best thing to do for the mod right now isn't to go onto the forums and share opinions about the state of the game, it's to play the game, get it populated, and actually try out the new things that have been implemented. Then, if you want to share your opinion, at least it'll be informed, and as a result I'll be better able to adapt the state of the game if a problem area is brought up.

Seeing how I am unable to log onto the servers while I am at work, this is the 2nd best option. And from what I can see, apart from some new gear, nothing new has been introduced to the game. Sure, you introduced a new leveling system, but I have played the game as a level 33 character enough in the past to know what the feels like, and I don't see how anything else you added or changed would have any effect on that. Therefore, my opinion is as informed as anyone else's who has played recently, unless you changed the fundamental combat mechanics of crpg and simply failed to document the changes on the forums here. Lastly, I have less free time than I'd like, and I want to use it wisely. If another game is more fun than playing a gimped version of crpg, then I will play that one. I'm not about to waste my time just so I can add a disclaimer to my future forum posts saying "level 33 still feels like level 33 used to, and yes I have played recently."
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Leshma on November 14, 2017, 01:56:41 AM
The point of this patch is to weaken high-level builds that can abuse the combat system, and to lessen the effects of "OP" items.

Same mindset as chadz/cmp, you are true successor indeed. Mindset being: take away the fun from players.

Thing with Warband and cRPG as extension of that game is, it is too damn dynamic, combat system is way too rich to put leashes on it and that's exactly what makes vanilla game and its grinding loving cousin so damn addicting to play. Going against that never seemed to work and there were multiple attempts of it by different developers.

In general, balancing action games with complex mechanics is impossible. What game developers do is changing the balance so it favors different items/style every patch or so therefore creating an illusion that game is properly balanced and some quality work has been done. Blizzard is famous for it and many online game studios follow same practice.

Now take cRPG into account. it is mechanically way more complex than anything Blizzard has ever produced including Overwatch. Has hundreds of items with different stats and animations, there is too many actors involved, they are all player controlled, too many different animations and possible outcomes. It is not possible to reach balance in cRPG, not even an illusion of balance. Players of this mod lie to themselves that cRPG is any more balanced than vanilla Warband. It is like religious dogma, they claim it is there but it is all in there heads and can't be measured in any way.

So many words being said, best cRPG was unrestrained cRPG which was closest to vanilla mechanics. Warband developers were smart enough figure out how silly is to restrain their game, they put few tweaks here and there but other than that it is fair game to abuse the mechanics for everyone. Which is what most players did and even created a cult out of it. Good Warband/cRPG player is nothing but a skilled exploiter of game mechanics which can be broken in multiple ways.

Only meta gamers whine about so called lack of balance and they are by far the stinkiest specie of gamers out there.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 14, 2017, 04:37:48 AM
So basically what I'm getting from this is people were bitching for months about level 35 being game breaking and ruining everything, and now you're upset because you aren't level 35 anymore? The main issue was that people being multiple levels higher than the base (30/31 now) and this gets rid of that problem. Now no one is 3+ levels higher than 99% of the of players
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 14, 2017, 04:53:58 AM
So basically what I'm getting from this is people were bitching for months about level 35 being game breaking and ruining everything, and now you're upset because you aren't level 35 anymore?

Were people bitching about that though? If any were, I was never amongst them. The "game-breaking" thing about the PoD was that people were able to go from level 35/36 to 38, giving them way more points to spend, which many ended up adding to their agi. If everyone gets an extra 2-3 levels, they all get an extra point in athletics, and overall the entire playerbase gets faster, which leads to wonkier stuff happening on the servers (trust me, I added those points into agi and the result was as some would say, "cancerous"). Despite what you may think, many people were level 35/36 pre-PoD, and those players ended up at 37/38, which is a much larger difference than you would think at first glance. Now those people who already had level 35/36 builds are level 33, leading to absolutely no variation between them and people with hundreds of millions of xp less than them. All this patch does is screw over anyone who at any point decided "I have enough looms, time to grind levels." The patch in no way punishes a vet who was level 33 or lower this whole time and retired 10,000 times such that they have any item they want MWed, while it punishes someone who instead would have rather had grinded towards a fun build that they carefully planned out all those years ago. If having a higher level is perceived to be such an advantage, might as well just purge us of all our looms as well, since those also help us 'pwn teh noobz.'
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 14, 2017, 05:17:14 AM
If we go down that path might as well just get rid of builds since some are objectively better than others  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 14, 2017, 05:22:05 AM
If we go down that path might as well just get rid of builds since some are objectively better than others  :rolleyes:
Isn't that what this revert is doing? Or at least severely gimping them.
No one can accuse me of not playing crpg as I always jumped on it over native if there were players on it. I have enjoyed my time in crpg through every stage pre pod to pod. Unfortunately there is nothing in this new system that makes me want to play it over native so for me it seems crpg has come to a close. I hope everything goes well for you all in the future.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 14, 2017, 05:35:15 AM
If we go down that path might as well just get rid of builds since some are objectively better than others  :rolleyes:

This patch already made us that much closer to native by basically removing leveling.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Gravoth_iii on November 14, 2017, 05:44:50 AM
I'd play if it was reverted to native with items still here.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Kratos on November 14, 2017, 09:24:16 AM
I'd play if it was reverted to native with items still here.

play mercs bruh
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: zottlmarsch on November 14, 2017, 10:40:04 AM
I'd play if it was reverted to native with items still here.

Wipe, Remove Xp, Remove Looms, Everyone is STF, Keep gold but increase prices of items so you have to play a decent amount with multiplier to afford high tier items. (Just to give people an added reason to play) Profit.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 14, 2017, 11:41:15 AM
I'm confused. Before levels were too high and it was game breaking. It is reset back and now there is no such thing as hybrids somehow and builds arent a thing??? Just because you cant get 150 WPF in two weapon catagories doesnt mean it isn't viable. I've played the last 6 gens with under 30 WPF and I've been doing fine
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 14, 2017, 04:32:37 PM
I'm confused. Before levels were too high and it was game breaking. It is reset back and now there is no such thing as hybrids somehow and builds arent a thing??? Just because you cant get 150 WPF in two weapon catagories doesnt mean it isn't viable. I've played the last 6 gens with under 30 WPF and I've been doing fine

Once again, who is saying levels were too high? Sure, levels 37+ were too high, not 36 and below. And how was it "reset back" when an entirely new leveling system was introduced? The point here is that if they wanted to try out a new leveling system. They shouldn't have asked if we wanted something entirely different and then pass the new system off as "something we all voted for." All the new system does is essentially wipe out any extra grinding anyone had done in the past to get to level 34+. The "end game" in crpg, if there ever was one, was to either grind until you had a million looms, or grind until you were a high level. This patch makes one of those decisions significantly better than the other, while giving everyone who chose the other path absolutely nothing in return for their lost investment. For instance, I could have retired about 55 times, had 55 more loompoints in my inventory, and still be at the same exact level I am now.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 14, 2017, 05:46:15 PM
I'm confused. Before levels were too high and it was game breaking. It is reset back and now there is no such thing as hybrids somehow and builds arent a thing??? Just because you cant get 150 WPF in two weapon catagories doesnt mean it isn't viable. I've played the last 6 gens with under 30 WPF and I've been doing fine
I have never had 150 wpf in 2 weapon categories even on Asheram who was lvl 37, before they nerfed hx I had 133 wpf in polearm and like 80-90 in xbow.
And hybrid builds are pretty much all I have ever played, I remember what hybrids were like pre-pod, was 15/18 hx and have no interest going back to that. Have fun with your all star melee.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 15, 2017, 05:02:14 AM
I have never had 150 wpf in 2 weapon categories even on Asheram who was lvl 37, before they nerfed hx I had 133 wpf in polearm and like 80-90 in xbow.
And hybrid builds are pretty much all I have ever played, I remember what hybrids were like pre-pod, was 15/18 hx and have no interest going back to that. Have fun with your all star melee.

Bruh I had a level 37 crossbowman as well and you could do 100xbow WPF and 120ish 1h which is pretty fucking sick. My build was 7if/7ps/7shield/7ath/7wm. That shit was way too OP man. Now my build is 22/17 with 7if with 7if/7ps/5wm/5ath/5shield and I'm only level 32 (200k out from 33) which will let me have 6 WM. Right now I'm at 110 1h and 86 xbow. IDK exactly what it'll be at after i level again but probably about 100 xbow as well. If you are level 33 I literally can't see how hybrid isn't viable. Swap out shield for power draw, power throw, riding, etc and then switch out WPF in xbow for archery/throwing/polearms/whatever you want.

Build
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Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 15, 2017, 05:34:55 AM
have fun
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 15, 2017, 05:37:17 AM
have fun

What a weak response. I don't know how people didn't realize that lowering the levels would mean fewer skill points. Personally I never advocated for a level reduction because I didn't really care but literally EVERYONE was screaming for it and now you're all complaining because now you are a lower level.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 15, 2017, 05:39:24 AM
What a weak response. I don't know how people didn't realize that lowering the levels would mean fewer skill points. Personally I never advocated for a level reduction because I didn't really care but literally EVERYONE was screaming for it and now you're all complaining because now you are a lower level.
I already gave you my response before you replied to me about morphing what I like into what you like.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 15, 2017, 05:40:33 AM
I already gave you my response before you replied to me about morphing what I like into what you like.

Your response was "hybrids arent a valid thing because of the soft level cap" I made a post with proof showing that you very easily can have a hybrid build. Your response was to say I had an "all star melee build and to have fun with it".
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 15, 2017, 05:42:01 AM
Your response was "hybrids arent a valid thing because of the soft level cap" I made a post with proof showing that you very easily can have a hybrid build. Your response was to say I had an "all star melee build and to have fun with it".
You didnt prove anything to me because that is all I ever played before patch of destiny sorry it doesnt fit into what you think I should find enjoyable.

Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 15, 2017, 05:48:03 AM
You didnt prove anything to me because that is all I ever played before patch of destiny sorry it doesnt fit into what you think I should find enjoyable.

You literally aren't making any sense. You're mad that 15/18 isnt a good build? Thats not very shocking to me man, that build wasn't even good pre-POD. You're mad that hybrid aren't "viable"? They very clearly are. Maybe I'm missing some core part of your argument can you explain it to me better so I can understand your point of view?
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 15, 2017, 05:50:56 AM
Anyhow beyond all that the only build I really enjoyed was Gunanruns 12/33 lvl 34 4 throwing 11 athletics and 8 wpf well i made it to 16 gens and went to 35 and added 3 ps with stones and sai or hafted blade and that will never again be possible so the point is moot. And I never ran anyone across the map forever.

 Maybe I am missing your idea of a hybrid you probably think putting points into melee as an archer is a "hybrid"
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 15, 2017, 05:57:58 AM
Anyhow beyond all that the only build I really enjoyed was Gunanruns 12/33 lvl 34 4 throwing 11 athletics and 8 wpf well i made it to 16 gens and went to 35 and added 3 ps with stones and sai or hafted blade and that will never again be possible so the point is moot. And I never ran anyone across the map forever.

 Maybe I am missing your idea of a hybrid you probably think putting points into melee as an archer is a "hybrid"

A hybrid is a class that can play multiple rolls. The build I posted is a "hybrid" because I can hang back and do ranged with my crossbow, or I can join the front lines as a shieldman and do team fighting. Two very different forms of gameplay. I think your idea of a "hybrid" is being able to able to use any weapon on one character which isn't really feasible and hasn't ever been.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 15, 2017, 06:08:19 AM
A hybrid is a class that can play multiple rolls. The build I posted is a "hybrid" because I can hang back and do ranged with my crossbow, or I can join the front lines as a shieldman and do team fighting. Two very different forms of gameplay. I think your idea of a "hybrid" is being able to able to use any weapon on one character which isn't really feasible and hasn't ever been.
you do realize you need no points to use that crossbow right?
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 15, 2017, 07:05:13 AM
you do realize you need no points to use that crossbow right?

You also don't need points to use 1h/2h/polearm?
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Ikarus on November 15, 2017, 12:54:36 PM
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a completely new leveling system
You keep saying "completely new xp system" as if we just changed to the lvl system of Diablo2 or CoD. The pod leveling system allowed too powerful builds and the old one was too grindy, the new one seems to give a good balance between leveling up and high level builds, but in the end we can only really say if it works or not after testing it for a while. I'm currently working my way up from lvl1 and with lvl22 I can already be a threat for high level builds what I've experienced so far

Quote
Having just one more level makes all the difference in available playstyles, and by extension having 2 or 3 more is even more impactful
I don't understand what you're trying to say there. Do you mean it's good that a trillion xp character should have a huge advantage compared to a normal highlevel char? Trillion xp characters should have a slight advantage over high level chars, they shouldn't be able to stomp them into the ground. Everybody who starts new would have to spend months into this game to even be a threat to old players, and that only statswise

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This patch makes one of those decisions significantly better than the other, while giving everyone who chose the other path absolutely nothing in return for their lost investment.
With a partial wipe people would be able to regain their looms with a couple of retirements, that's no big deal.

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They shouldn't have asked if we wanted something entirely different and then pass the new system off as "something we all voted for."
You're acting as if people had betrayed you, there was plenty of discussion about all of this both on the forums and discord.

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The point of this patch is to weaken high-level builds that can abuse the combat system, and to lessen the effects of "OP" items.
Quote
Same mindset as chadz/cmp, you are true successor indeed. Mindset being: take away the fun from players.
The "I want my puppystomper-mod"-fun? The kind of fun which is only fun for the people who are using that exact build? If you mean that its sad that there arent high agi headshot stone thrower or shield/knife/high athl lolbuilds, then good riddance.

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So many words being said, best cRPG was unrestrained cRPG which was closest to vanilla mechanics.
jesus Christ, I never ever want to go back to that madness. Can't you remember how much whining there was in the forums about the mechanics? Nothing was working well in 2011, all that archer kiting, roofmonkeys (and no flags to counter them), ladderhighways on siege, the ez win cav builds with the old lance stabbing angles, native is still a crazy rangefest up to this very day. Only thing I miss from 2011 is ladderpulting  :lol:

Jona, some constructive feedback would help way more than all this subjective arguing and finger-pointing, it's already impressive that we even got people who still invest a lot of time in trying to fix this ancient mod. What do you think would be best for the mod to do?
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: njames89 on November 15, 2017, 01:16:41 PM
Damn that is a lot of words. You guys should put this effort into playing the game!

Professor and Dupre are working on some changes to help make hybrid builds more viable while still keeping the new level system, stay tuned!
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Nightingale on November 16, 2017, 08:13:31 AM
Couple of points to be made here.

The new level system has a few flaws.

1) Skip the fun (level 31) *zero grind* has at most 2 attribute and skill points less than a person that spent years and years grinding XP. It make's us oldies a bit sore when we look at this way (4 years of grinding XP) vs (1 click of a button) benefits? - 2 attribute points and skill points over the (click of the button). So, all in all, we could have all been retiring for 4 years accumulating more and more looms and that would have been more logical *if this XP system remains unchanged*

2) the soft cap is a bit too extreme if you create a line-graph that compares the 3 sets of xp systems you'll see that the new one escalates very rapidly in an unrealistic manner that makes it leveling past level 31 basically out of the question. There are no real benefits from this course of action anymore and everyone is better off retiring/ skipping the fun.

3) I too feel the soreness of Ashram's/Jona's argument as I am in the same boat. *not that we can't adapt or alter our builds of choice*
Years and years ago probably 2013 I made the choice that retirement was no longer relevant to my character and the only way to continue with a sense of progression was to go beyond level 31 (retirement level) So I did just that. At the time the Patch of destiny came out I was level 35 and shot up to level 37 nearing level 38 (nearing as in like half way there lol) Now I was never a fan of having all of those extra skill points and always viewed it as a mod breaking thing having SO many extra points to play around with. So I definitely see what you are trying to do with this new XP system and I am not opposed to reducing the total amount of points a build can utilize.

That is a good goal to have; though with that said the majority of us are not new. The majority of us have made specific decisions regarding our characters many years ago and this system is effectively punishing those choices we made many many years ago I could understand why that would make the oldest of us a bit frustrated.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 16, 2017, 05:49:58 PM
Jona, some constructive feedback would help way more than all this subjective arguing and finger-pointing, it's already impressive that we even got people who still invest a lot of time in trying to fix this ancient mod. What do you think would be best for the mod to do?

The first step is to manage to convince the 'infallible' devs that they've actually made a mistake, or at least taken a suboptimal approach to something they've perceived as a problem. This requires constant berating to pound it through their thick skulls. Once that step is accomplished and they say something along the lines of "oh, i begrudgingly admit that your argument holds some merit, what would you recommend we do to remedy the situation?" then I'll gladly start brainstorming ideas with them. Unfortunately, each iteration of the crpg dev team fails to own up to their mistakes and only after the entire community (or at least the vocal minority) turns against them is there any hope of change.

(click to show/hide)

Finally, someone else who didn't waste their time grinding endlessly for looms and can sympathize to some extent. After I made a complete set I stopped retiring and would eventually gather enough gold to purchase a few extra looms on my way to higher levels. As I previously posted, I could have retired at least 55 more times and still be in the same boat I am with this current leveling system. I've got nothing to show for the ceaseless grinding I did beyond what is currently the cutoff for level 33. Sure our xp wasn't "wiped" out, but our levels were. And there's simply no point in having any xp over level 33 with the new system, so why should we care that our "xp wasn't wiped?" I couldn't care less if I had 1 million or 1 trillion xp, as that is nothing more than a means to an end. All I care about is maintaining my level, which didn't happen.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 16, 2017, 06:36:25 PM
The first step is to manage to convince the 'infallible' devs that they've actually made a mistake, or at least taken a suboptimal approach to something they've perceived as a problem. This requires constant berating to pound it through their thick skulls.
Oh my fucking god. That is all I can say. If you took ONE minute out of your day of bitching on the forums to join the discord, or even just shoot me a message on steam, you'd have found that I'm normally very receptive to input. But no. You had to bitch and bitch, and guess what? That's doing more to kill the mod than anything else, because that sort of shit ruins the incentive for us to actually keep working on the mod.

Don't you worry, I'm a stubborn shit, so I'm not done working on this game yet. But just know that your behavior is fucking awful.

Couple of points to be made here.

The new level system has a few flaws.

1) Skip the fun (level 31) *zero grind* has at most 2 attribute and skill points less than a person that spent years and years grinding XP. It make's us oldies a bit sore when we look at this way (4 years of grinding XP) vs (1 click of a button) benefits? - 2 attribute points and skill points over the (click of the button). So, all in all, we could have all been retiring for 4 years accumulating more and more looms and that would have been more logical *if this XP system remains unchanged*

2) the soft cap is a bit too extreme if you create a line-graph that compares the 3 sets of xp systems you'll see that the new one escalates very rapidly in an unrealistic manner that makes it leveling past level 31 basically out of the question. There are no real benefits from this course of action anymore and everyone is better off retiring/ skipping the fun.

3) I too feel the soreness of Ashram's/Jona's argument as I am in the same boat. *not that we can't adapt or alter our builds of choice*
Years and years ago probably 2013 I made the choice that retirement was no longer relevant to my character and the only way to continue with a sense of progression was to go beyond level 31 (retirement level) So I did just that. At the time the Patch of destiny came out I was level 35 and shot up to level 37 nearing level 38 (nearing as in like half way there lol) Now I was never a fan of having all of those extra skill points and always viewed it as a mod breaking thing having SO many extra points to play around with. So I definitely see what you are trying to do with this new XP system and I am not opposed to reducing the total amount of points a build can utilize.

That is a good goal to have; though with that said the majority of us are not new. The majority of us have made specific decisions regarding our characters many years ago and this system is effectively punishing those choices we made many many years ago I could understand why that would make the oldest of us a bit frustrated.

(click to show/hide)

Look at this instead. This is an example of constructive criticism, with ideas. In fact, I'll probably implement something like this.

So in general, Jona, you'll find people are more open to suggestions when you aren't behaving like a cunt. Try to get that through your thick skull.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 16, 2017, 07:43:49 PM
(click to show/hide)

Oh my fucking god. That is all I can say. Same old excuses. You realize people work, right? And that typically hopping on discord or steam while at work would be a big no-no for most companies, while a forum would be much more acceptable. There is no reason civilized discussion can't take place on this forum, apart from the fact that you'd need both parties to remain civil. Reread the OP of this thread, in short, all I said was "this partial wipe isn't what the poll was for, what gives? If you were aiming at a partial wipe, HERE'S MY INPUT ON WHAT IMO COULD BE A BETTER METHOD OMG YES I ACTUALLY GAVE SOME ADVICE IN HERE SINCE THE FIRST POST WOW READING IS SO HARD." At which point in typical crpg dev fashion you had to get overly defensive and instead of providing any answers to the proposed questions you dodged them altogether almost as expertly as a seasoned politician while passing off all my posts as baseless hate, trolling, shit talking, mod-killing, not-advice-giving, etc.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 16, 2017, 08:40:23 PM
They should change the name of new crpg to OKaM 2.
Edit- oh and by the way you guys moved Jonas thread to the bitching chamber of tears section and now you are bitching about him bitching in the bitching sub forum? Isn't that what this part of forums is for?
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 16, 2017, 11:25:52 PM
oh and by the way you guys moved Jonas thread to the bitching chamber of tears section and now you are bitching about him bitching in the bitching sub forum? Isn't that what this part of forums is for?

Aaaayyy, at least someone gets it.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Dupre on November 17, 2017, 01:06:59 AM
I moved it. Jona's crying and complaining is toxic, useless and a waste of time to read. If you have no time to test current or future changes, don't reply or create a thread to complain on main forums.  We don't want your feedback if you aren't playing. I'm just going to delete your thread next time. Now go to work before I call your manager.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 17, 2017, 01:15:58 AM
Oh snap I'm getting threats now? Neato. And as I said before, one needn't play crpg to know what level 33 feels like if they have played this game at all in the past. Unless you've mysteriously changed all the mechanics behind the scenes without telling anyone, there's nothing new to see here.

(click to show/hide)
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Dupre on November 17, 2017, 01:30:50 AM
Well maybe you should take a hint Jona. If you dont want to hear the same response maybe you should think of a new way to give us feedback. There might just be a good way of doing that if you take 1 second to read yeldurhtingle's post.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 17, 2017, 02:52:08 AM
I moved it. Jona's crying and complaining is toxic, useless and a waste of time to read. If you have no time to test current or future changes, don't reply or create a thread to complain on main forums.  We don't want your feedback if you aren't playing. I'm just going to delete your thread next time. Now go to work before I call your manager.
My comment wasnt about you moving it it was about Rd bitching about Jona bitching in the thread after it was in the bitching section. Apparently dont shed tears in the chamber of tears section either. I dont really care for this change either but for different reasons than Jona as I never tried to go past lvl 33 in pre pod, if I hadn't retired 3x at lvl 33 and started wasting time on alts I might have gotten there then.
 What time is needed to test something you played for years before pod? With obviously even more level restraints? If all you wanted to do was " create an environment where there are not players that have high level advantages you could have left it the way it was and hobbled the going high levels past retirement. I would rather play a level 35 stf character with no looms, or even a level 34 before retirement character with no looms than what you just did.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 17, 2017, 05:24:19 AM
Oh snap I'm getting threats now? Neato. And as I said before, one needn't play crpg to know what level 33 feels like if they have played this game at all in the past. Unless you've mysteriously changed all the mechanics behind the scenes without telling anyone, there's nothing new to see here.

(click to show/hide)
Just for your information, if you are able to stop being unpleasant and PM me with the intent of civilly discussing the issue, I'll gladly discuss it as well. Otherwise, I won't feel compelled in the slightest to treat you with respect.

What time is needed to test something you played for years before pod? With obviously even more level restraints? If all you wanted to do was " create an environment where there are not players that have high level advantages you could have left it the way it was and hobbled the going high levels past retirement. I would rather play a level 35 stf character with no looms, or even a level 34 before retirement character with no looms than what you just did.
When I was talking about the time needed to test, that was about how the build felt in regards to other players. Obviously yes one can know what a build feels like after playing for a large amount of time, but given that everyone's levels changed, you can't know how the build compares to others until you try it out.


As a reminder.
Basically, all this shit is a work in progress. The post-31 xp for levels can change, item difficulties can change, etc.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Tristan_of_Erzoth on November 17, 2017, 06:06:58 AM
When the fuck was Professor a developer in 2015
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 17, 2017, 06:09:37 AM
You took away the two main things that made me want to play this mod:
1. Asheram was my highest level and you doubled the xp he needed to get to his next level
2. Gunanrun is what I found fun and you basically eliminated his build
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Nightingale on November 17, 2017, 06:36:51 AM
You took away the two main things that made me want to play this mod:
1. Asheram was my highest level and you doubled the xp he needed to get to his next level
2. Gunanrun is what I found fun and you basically eliminated his build

what was Gunanrun's build exactly?
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 17, 2017, 07:02:25 AM
You took away the two main things that made me want to play this mod:
1. Asheram was my highest level and you doubled the xp he needed to get to his next level
2. Gunanrun is what I found fun and you basically eliminated his build

Another reminder:

Basically, all this shit is a work in progress. The post-31 xp for levels can change, item difficulties can change, etc.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Oberyn on November 17, 2017, 01:40:26 PM
toxic

Lol cRPG confirmed for dead. cRPG'ers are dead. cRPG'ers don't have to be your audience anymore.

Although I can understand the frustration on dev parts too. The level revert thing had been announced and discussed on forums, if you had shit against it maybe you should've mentioned something then. I don't even play anymore and understood that to mean "high levels builds will no longer be viable" as an automatic part of it, which some other people apparently didn't understand.

Looks like current devs are finding out just how entitled and whiny the cRPG playerbase is and always has been. No matter what you do someone is going to go "REEEE YOU RUINED THE GAME FOREVER" (Which is why a wipe is the only answer and you should not listen to any whining about MUH LOOMs and MUH LEVELS, ever).
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: MR_FISTA on November 17, 2017, 02:18:31 PM
a complete wipe would be amazing, just revert everything back to how it was ladderpaults and all, i know id start playing if it went back to how it used to be
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 17, 2017, 04:40:55 PM
PM me

HEAVEN FORBID WE DISCUSS CRPG BALANCING/CHANGES ON THE CRPG FORUMS!

When the fuck was Professor a developer in 2015

That post was obviously in response to dupre dude, at least try and understand all these big words you're reading before posting.

The level revert thing had been announced and discussed on forums, if you had shit against it maybe you should've mentioned something then. I don't even play anymore and understood that to mean "high levels builds will no longer be viable" as an automatic part of it, which some other people apparently didn't understand.

Therein lies one of my complaints that I've outlined earlier... we voted answering the question of "Should levels be reverted to pre "Patch of Destiny?" I voted yes, as I was level 35 pre-PoD, and quite possibly had enough xp to even be level 36 by now, going off the old system. Now, why is it that when I voted yes on that poll I should expect to be level 33 instead? Hence the title of this thread and much of the bellyaching, since I was asking for a real revert, as what was implemented is in no ways a revert, with revert being defined as "a (return to (a previous state, practice, topic, [leveling system], etc.)."
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Ikarus on November 17, 2017, 05:34:18 PM
It's nice to have the crpg spirit back in the forum at least, I'll see it as a good omen  :D

nothing is fixed, anything can change, important now is to just give it a try, even if it's not perfect at first
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 17, 2017, 06:07:52 PM
It's nice to have the crpg spirit back in the forum at least

Get that crpg spirit outa here and back to discord!
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 17, 2017, 06:41:18 PM
Therein lies one of my complaints that I've outlined earlier... we voted answering the question of "Should levels be reverted to pre "Patch of Destiny?" I voted yes, as I was level 35 pre-PoD, and quite possibly had enough xp to even be level 36 by now, going off the old system. Now, why is it that when I voted yes on that poll I should expect to be level 33 instead? Hence the title of this thread and much of the bellyaching, since I was asking for a real revert, as what was implemented is in no ways a revert, with revert being defined as "a (return to (a previous state, practice, topic, [leveling system], etc.)."

The language I used was poor, I'll give you that. When I said "essentially" changing back to pre-PoD, I meant that retiring would once again be done at level 31 or so. The only thing that has been changed from pre-patch of destiny is the post-retirement levels.

... at least try and understand all these big words you're reading before posting.
Follow your own advice pal. I'm also enjoying the fact that you are selectively ignoring the fact that I've said that all of this can change. Just so you can complain more.

HEAVEN FORBID WE DISCUSS CRPG BALANCING/CHANGES ON THE CRPG FORUMS!
I asked you to PM me with the intent of a 1 on 1 civil discussion. I don't know if you're scared of talking to me all by yourself, or unsure whether you can be civil, but don't you worry, I don't bite.
Quite literally, if you do decide to PM me I'll drop all this unpleasant stuff I'm saying. I know I'm capable of doing that.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 17, 2017, 07:57:51 PM
[quoted stuff]

I was merely explaining to my good friend Oberyn who may or may not have been up to date on everything that has been stated here how there was confusion concerning the vote, and how merely having a vote doesn't alleviate any of the supposed frustration the devs are under, as you just admitted it was largely self-inflicted as you told us to vote between A and B, then went ahead and implemented C.

Follow your own advice pal. I'm also enjoying the fact that you are selectively ignoring the fact that I've said that all of this can change. Just so you can complain more.

I haven't ignored a single thing you've said. In essence, you've simply bashed my choice of words, disregarded any suggestions I've made, failed to answer proposed questions, and in short, have yet to supply an appropriate response that could further this discussion in a useful and productive manner. This approach of yours was met in kind and therefore the attempt at a discussion has led us nowhere. Needless to say the premature moving of this thread to the chamber of tears only hastened its descent into uselessness, and that act alone speaks volumes towards the apparent mental state of (at least one of the) devs here.

I asked you to PM me with the intent of a 1 on 1 civil discussion. I don't know if you're scared of talking to me all by yourself, or unsure whether you can be civil, but don't you worry, I don't bite.
Quite literally, if you do decide to PM me I'll drop all this unpleasant stuff I'm saying. I know I'm capable of doing that.

First discord, now PMs... once again,

HEAVEN FORBID WE DISCUSS CRPG BALANCING/CHANGES ON THE CRPG FORUMS!

There is nothing keeping us from a worthwhile debate on the forums, other than your mental block that apparently only allows you to commence civilized discussions in private. The more open the discussion, the better as anyone can chime in and we get access to multiple points of view and opposing opinions. Enough of this behind-closed-doors nonsense that crpg devs, both past and present are so used to. You're making big changes here with a whopping 20 or so pseudo-active players, why not let them all contribute should they please to? We've already had Asheram and Desire (and others, although not in the same capacity) throw in their two cents, which is two more than we would have had in PMs. If you're so convinced you can reset and start this discussion over, then I present to you my original post:

(click to show/hide)

To get this discussion rolling, a good template for a response would be:

Quote
"In regards to your first paragraph, [here is where you own up to your mistake instead of saying that me/the community made false assumptions about the poll's meaning*].

Concerning the second point, where you state that levels are more important than looms for the enjoyment of the mod for some people, I [agree/disagree and here's why]. Therefore, as for your suggestion that we wipe looms instead of levels as a soft reset, I must say that [we'll get right on that/we'd rather do X because Y].

Near the end, you ask what the purpose was of this level wipe, the intended purpose behind it was [explanation] which I'm sorry to see apparently removed much of the fun of crpg for you and perhaps others. How would you recommend we proceed from here?"

*seeing how one needn't make a single assumption about the meaning of 'Should levels be reverted to pre "Patch of Destiny"' as you could pull up a dictionary and find out exactly what that statement means. It isn't all that subjective.


Seeing how there was undoubtedly some snarkiness in my initial post, it wouldn't hurt too much to include some of your own in the response instead of keeping it as neatly tailored as the above template. However if you wish to keep things remotely civil, as the one with a reputation to uphold you shouldn't come firing back with something along the lines of your second post (keeping in mind that all of that shit talk prior to that post happened once the thread was moved to the forum section most appropriate for that behavior).
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 17, 2017, 09:24:49 PM
what was Gunanrun's build exactly?
He was 12/33 at lvl 34 with 4 throwing, 11 athletics and 8 wpm with all weapon points in throwing( I think it was like 130 or 140 wpf) I had got to generation 16 a little while ago so I didnt retire last time and stayed at lvl 35 and put 3 points into power strike.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 17, 2017, 11:54:20 PM
Jona,

Why do you think it is necessary to make your points in a snarky manner? How on earth can you consider that to be beneficial to having a thoughtful, well-reasoned discussion? Notice that I'm not asking others like Asheram or Desire to talk to me about this over PM's. It's only you. As I've said, I'm not interested in hearing from someone who only responds with snarkiness. (An exaggeration, yes) Since you seem rather dedicated to replying in that way on the forums normally, I thought you would be happier responding without being snarky in private.

That being said, sure, let's have the discussion here. All that matters to me is that the snarkiness and bullshit is kept out of it. All of it. Again, if you can act in a thoughtful and respectful manner, I'll gladly respond and discuss this.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 18, 2017, 01:09:51 AM
Aaaaand no worthwhile response, yet again. Not surprising.

You ask why I reply in this manner? I ask why this thread was moved here in the first place. It was quite tame at the time it was moved. All it shows is that the current devs have the lowest tolerance of criticism out of all their predecessors, which is truly remarkable. There's apparently no way you'd have an intelligent discussion if someone had a viewpoint that differed from your own. If you want a real discussion move this on back to general discussion or game balance discussion, ain't getting shit while its stuck in the land of the shitposts. I'd make a new thread, but big bad dupre told me I'd get in trouble if I do. QQ
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Uther Pendragon on November 18, 2017, 02:09:34 AM
Jona, your attitude really doesn't get you any favours with us.

I think you're missing the point - for absolutely no personal gain, a group of dudes decides to try and revive a mod they like, and after an absurdly long time of waiting for permissions and actual materials, they manage to do it.

Then they finally push out a patch, that includes a long desired change - something to lower the levels and go back to somewhere similar to pre-PoD levels.

And the first major thread about the change is a sarcastic plea for a "real revert", with some arrogance and a sense of superiority on the side. I'm not going to bother with your bullshit semantics, i just want to know - what gives you the idea that, after our development has been going on for around 2-3 months, and we've MANY MANY TIMES linked to the discord on this forum, saying that this is where our discussions, ideas and announcements are happening, that you were somehow "barred" from sharing your 2 cents about the topic? If you saw that we were using a chat server like discord to coordinate our development, why didn't you partake and instead stayed here? I'm genuinely curious.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 18, 2017, 03:07:41 AM
Aaaaand no worthwhile response, yet again. Not surprising.

You ask why I reply in this manner? I ask why this thread was moved here in the first place. It was quite tame at the time it was moved. All it shows is that the current devs have the lowest tolerance of criticism out of all their predecessors, which is truly remarkable. There's apparently no way you'd have an intelligent discussion if someone had a viewpoint that differed from your own. If you want a real discussion move this on back to general discussion or game balance discussion, ain't getting shit while its stuck in the land of the shitposts. I'd make a new thread, but big bad dupre told me I'd get in trouble if I do. QQ
How is offering to have an actual polite discussion not worthwhile?

So, let me state this clearly. I have said that I will have a conversation with you. The location of where that conversation happens means nothing to me. I will treat it as a conversation anywhere else.

If you still refuse to have a conversation free of snarkiness, then you obviously never wanted to have such a conversation in the first place. Or, you are unable to get over the "trauma" of having your thread moved to the QQ subforum. In either case, I won't spend any further time trying to discuss this with you.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Jona on November 18, 2017, 08:13:53 AM
Jona, your attitude really doesn't get you any favours with us.

Oh hey, the mute -1 clicker finally speaks out. Anyways, I'm a stop you right there. No one's attitude should gain anyone favor with you. If someone starts sucking your dick you shouldn't weigh their opinion any more than someone slinging shit at you, or someone else who is entirely indifferent. That's half the reason crpg became the mess it is today, people taking the advice of their friends and disregarding equally sound reasoning from others not in their little circle. Take this for example:

a long desired change - something to lower the levels and go back to somewhere similar to pre-PoD levels.

Desired by who, exactly? The few people you spoke to on discord? The others in your little circle of devs? That poll on here sure as hell ain't enough to validate this change, as that wasn't about lowering the levels, it was about reverting to pre-pod and nothing more.

we've MANY MANY TIMES linked to the discord on this forum, saying that this is where our discussions, ideas and announcements are happening, that you were somehow "barred" from sharing your 2 cents about the topic? If you saw that we were using a chat server like discord to coordinate our development, why didn't you partake and instead stayed here? I'm genuinely curious.

I never claimed to be barred from any discussions, I only said that they didn't take place here, and instead on some other medium. This here is the crpg forum. It's got a section called game balance discussion, no reason not to use it. Discord isn't convenient for everyone. It isn't necessarily a website I'd want to go on at work where someone can be spamming racist or otherwise offensive material, posting sketchy links, etc. Sure, that happens on the forums here, but it is far easier to avoid such things when it isn't automatically updated live.

How is offering to have an actual polite discussion not worthwhile?

I made my offer at a civil discussion in my previous post, even made a template for your response that would allow for an easily continued discussion since it would ensure you hit on all the major points and provide follow up questions of your own to keep things moving forward. Instead you made another reply that moved the topic further away from the OP.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Uther Pendragon on November 18, 2017, 09:44:16 AM
"I'mma stop you right there" you're fun  :wink:
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 18, 2017, 09:57:25 AM
There are way too many Supreme Overlords on this forum. I think the three four (my bad forgot about Dupre) of them should be required to fight to the death IRL with a single winner keeping the title.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Ikarus on November 18, 2017, 10:19:02 AM
page 4, no point in going further for me

abandon thread
visitors can't see pics , please register or login
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Thryn on November 18, 2017, 08:55:25 PM
yo jona im all for bashing admins any day of the week but i need to let you know

ur being a right cunt

professor is a dev who actively talks about game changes with the community; ive had discussions about crpg while in game which is something that normally doesn't happen

you need to chill with your bullshit tirade
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Molly on November 18, 2017, 09:30:18 PM
Just let Uther run this shit show.

Not the overlord we need but the one we deserve!
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Thryn on November 18, 2017, 09:38:47 PM
ban molly
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Molly on November 18, 2017, 11:16:59 PM
Idgaf
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Yuhmaz on November 19, 2017, 12:01:35 AM
Hey thryn this is Yuhmaz from Donkey team,

I have heard your plea and started working on coding a new levelling system.Don't worry it will be better than the previous.And don't mind about molly,we took her to our team through her mother's insistence.

Regards,Melee Team
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: RD_Professor on November 19, 2017, 02:15:12 AM
Hey thryn this is Yuhmaz from Donkey team,

I have heard your plea and started working on coding a new levelling system.Don't worry it will be better than the previous.And don't mind about molly,we took her to our team through her mother's insistence.

Regards,Melee Team
Thank you for the support Yuhmaz, I'll be happy to actually see a competent dev working on cRPG instead of the current guy.

Man, the current dev is a real loser. Probably really ugly too.
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Torben on November 19, 2017, 02:34:13 AM
sure is one ugly son of a gun
Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Asheram on November 19, 2017, 02:54:44 AM
sure is one ugly son of a gun
Is he Ugly Bob from South Park?
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Title: Re: Can we get a real leveling system revert? Please and thank you
Post by: Torben on November 19, 2017, 03:04:52 AM
omg put a bag on ure head, aahg