Author Topic: Give us back damage display  (Read 771 times)

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Offline War_Ferret

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Give us back damage display
« on: February 18, 2018, 07:04:22 PM »
+12
We've had it ever since the first M&B was released. Then it was taken from us and I don't even know why.

Everyone is crying about balancing, but noone even knows how much damage they deal. We need information for empirically educated crying.

Balancers are doing what they want and nobody understands armor calculations, speed bonuses etc. What matters is the final damage value and we should be able to see it.

It sucks that admins have all these tools for their convenience (for whatever reason) and the rest can go fuck themselves.

So please reactivate the damage messages in the chat log that you disabled long ago.

Offline Thryn

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 08:55:16 PM »
+5
nobody understands armor calculations, speed bonuses etc.

can confirm
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Offline Paul

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 09:05:14 PM »
+4

Offline Turkhammer

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 09:12:11 PM »
0
The Old Ones do.

Quit trying to be an Old Boys Club

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 12:34:24 AM »
0
The Old Ones do.
So why was it disabled and why don't you bring it back?

Offline Tristan_of_Erzoth

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 05:34:21 AM »
0
iirc it was removed because to have it you need admin on the server so giving it to everyone gave everyone admin ranks which is bad for obvious reasons

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2018, 11:32:23 AM »
0
iirc it was removed because to have it you need admin on the server so giving it to everyone gave everyone admin ranks which is bad for obvious reasons
Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. All the other mods and native M&B/Warband have damage display without you being an admin. I know admins can see everything, but that's not a reason. It's a choice.

Offline Gurnisson

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2018, 11:44:28 AM »
+1
Sorry, that doesn't make any sense. All the other mods and native M&B/Warband have damage display without you being an admin. I know admins can see everything, but that's not a reason. It's a choice.

Is my memory fading me, or does native multiplayer not have it? Maybe it's only deactivated for tournaments? I'd prefer not having it in cRPG either way
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2018, 04:43:33 PM »
+1
Agreed, add it. It was incredibly usefull as an admin to have it in order to see actual damage values and efficiency of things. I dont see why it shouldnt be added, not like theres some kind of immersion breaking, it just a good tool to have.
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Offline Paul

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 10:13:28 AM »
+2
Iirc I made it for Tydeus for testing. The main reason why it was high thetan level admin only was because of chadz' doctrine of game mechanic opagueness. Maybe Prof sees it differently.

Offline Yuhmaz

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2018, 11:58:18 AM »
0
okey done.you can check if it's ok now.

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Offline War_Ferret

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2018, 12:32:25 PM »
0
Iirc I made it for Tydeus for testing. The main reason why it was high thetan level admin only was because of chadz' doctrine of game mechanic opagueness. Maybe Prof sees it differently.

So that myth going around that says everyone would need to have admin rights for it to work and it's impossible to do without breaking the whole game... that's just BS, right?

Offline njames89

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2018, 02:04:57 PM »
+1
Not 100% sure but at some point it did function for people in game and I don't believe it gave them all admin. I think it was removed because it took away a layer of mystery about damage mechanics.

I don't see much reason not to add it back in but I don't know whether its possible or how much work it would be for Prof. I do think its a bit more immersive to not have damage showing for people.

Offline Silveredge

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2018, 06:18:51 AM »
+3
I feel like game mechanic opaqueness only encourages a wide range of player builds.  While you can change things and ultimately see how effective builds are just by exploring and using them on a server...  It would be a different community if we can whittle down all builds to just 1 per class that are "OBVIOUSLY MOAR 1337 THAN URS" with mathz.

Player diversity is good.

Offline War_Ferret

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Re: Give us back damage display
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 11:50:46 AM »
0
I feel like game mechanic opaqueness only encourages a wide range of player builds.  While you can change things and ultimately see how effective builds are just by exploring and using them on a server...  It would be a different community if we can whittle down all builds to just 1 per class that are "OBVIOUSLY MOAR 1337 THAN URS" with mathz.

Player diversity is good.
I know ignorance is bliss, but we are not talking about a complete damage calculation formula being displayed on screen, just a final damage value like every other rpg-ish game gives you, which is helpful in judging the game balance and understanding the difference in damage types etc. And I do believe we should be able to judge the game balance for ourselves and not have too much faith in the arbitrariness of balancers and admins, who want exclusive rights, information and an advantage over the peasantry. The fact that your post got upvoted by an admin/balancer speaks for itself.
Claiming that damage display decreases the variety in builds is just nonsense. If by "variety" you mean builds that are bad at what they were meant to be good at, then maybe lol. Other than that, damage isn't everything and nobody is going to play max damage melee, because he suddenly realises he can do more damage with a 2h axe than as a horse archer, or that higher athletics surprisingly comes at the expense of damage potential...
I care to know, for example, how higher damage throwing weapons and bows perform against medium to heavy armor, because the advertised item damage stats have very little to do with how much damage they really do. At the moment, high damage ranged weapons are utterly useless and I do want to have some real info here.
And btw nobody will know the details of how to make a good build by "exploring" it on the servers... Let's say I want to know whether a horse archer is better with 8 PD instead of 7 or with 4 HA instead of 3. I can play a hundred gens to find out and will never know, because random and unknown (speed bonus, enemy armor, Str and IF...) components are much too high.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2018, 11:53:53 AM by War_Ferret »