Melee Gaming

Strategus => Strategus General Discussion => Topic started by: Haboe on January 20, 2013, 05:08:55 PM

Title: Strategus rules
Post by: Haboe on January 20, 2013, 05:08:55 PM
The rules for strategus have been confirmed.

When you read the rules, you have to keep Meow's common sense rulen in the back of your mind at all times.



Use of siege equipment:

          1) Ladders
                    1.1) Floating ladders. You are not allowed to stay on floating ladders. If for some reason your ladder becomes floating, you are to get off it, even if it means suicide.
                    1.2) Ladderplacement. For now there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, so they are allowed. (as long as you keep the other rules in mind)
                    1.3) Siege-equipment on ladders is not allowed. This includes using siege shields, other ladders and everything you can make with a construction-site.
                    1.4) Ladders in open battles (anti cav) are allowed as long as the ladder is legit according to rule 1.2.
                    1.5) Cavalry is allowed to use ladders.
          2) Forward spawn
                    2.1) Spawning at enemy forward spawn is allowed. This means you are allowed to set your spawn at any forward spawn on the map, no matter who build it.
          3) Siege towers
                    3.1) Using ladders from siegetowers is allowed.
                              3.1.1 Using siege equipment that are the result of a moved siegetower is not allowed.
                    3.2) Using siege shields on siegetowers is allowed
          4) Covering flags
                    4.1) covering flags with any equipment is not allowed. This includes ladders, siege shields, construction sites and anything you can produce with a construction site.

Battle/ siege
          1) Prolonging a battle
                    1.1) End battle, common sense rule. Feel free to troll around when the battle is over, but don't extend it too long, crpg no delaying rules applies here.
                    1.2) If the attacker is out of siege equipment, and no longer has any way of getting into the castle or town, he has to retreat ("getting into the castle" means getting in the defender spawn zone. If defenders are in a place that cannot be reached from their spawns without siege equipment, they will have to come down).
          2) Spawnraping
                    2.1) Spawnraping the enemy is allowed. It's your teams responsibility to defend your flags, if you lose controle over an area you might get spawnkilled.

Strat map
          1) CMP's rules for not attacking your village to delay your enemy
          2) Multiaccounting. It is not allowed to own and use multiple more then 1 account on strategus.
          3) Accountsharing. It is not allowed to log into other players accounts.
          4) Night time. Night time is different for each player, therefore there are no rules to the usage of nighttime.
          5) Itembombing a fief. Dropping a lot of items in an enemy fief is not allowed. It causes incredibly long equipment lists for the fief.


Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Meow on January 20, 2013, 05:12:24 PM
For the time being these will be the strat rules everyone has to stick to, they might be changed if necessary.
Feel free to discuss them further and give your own input.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Blackzilla on January 20, 2013, 08:32:53 PM
The rules for strategus have been confirmed.

When you read the rules, you have to keep Meow's common sense rulen in the back of your mind at all times.



Use of siege equipment:

          1) Ladders
                    1.3) Siege-equipment on ladders is not allowed. This includes using siege shields and everything you can make with a construction-site.

Is it still allowed to throw ladders from siege equip you made? Like a siege tower, or throw a ladder that lands on a healing tent/foward spawn. I understand nothing on a ladder, but I'm curious to know if we can put ladders on siege equip.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Haboe on January 20, 2013, 08:58:38 PM
Is it still allowed to throw ladders from siege equip you made? Like a siege tower, or throw a ladder that lands on a healing tent/foward spawn. I understand nothing on a ladder, but I'm curious to know if we can put ladders on siege equip.

3) Siege towers
                    3.1) Using ladders from siegetowers is allowed.


So yes, using ladders from and to siege equipment is allowed.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 23, 2013, 06:31:43 PM
Quote
1.5) Cavalry is allowed to use ladders.



Oh snap!  Now I don't have to try and be covert when I ride up to the castle with a ladder!   :twisted:

Also battle/siege rules 1.1 and 1.2

I'm assuming if you're out of tickets as attackers, and then run out of siege equipment, that is fine to keep pulling things out of weapon racks until the enemy comes and kills you?  I think that should be allowed, I don't see it as delaying at that point unless you're actively running away from the enemy.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Canary on January 31, 2013, 06:00:40 AM

Oh snap!  Now I don't have to try and be covert when I ride up to the castle with a ladder!   :twisted:

I believe that rule refers to cavalry being able to ride up ladders on their horse, not being able to carry them in their hands while on horseback. Ladders have the tag "cannot be used on horseback" for a reason, and therefore I would say doing so is an exploit.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 31, 2013, 06:38:36 PM
Well I wouldn't be throwing them on horseback, aka "using" them /sarcasm.

If I misinterpreted the rules (and it is as you say) then I completely was cheating in the occitan vs new rindyar castle...as I was riding back and forth from the battle dropping off ladders for the front lines (kept resupplying at the weapons rack).  We got wrecked in that battle anyways, but if it wasn't for all the ladders i was bringing it would have been even worse.

I'll refrain from doing that in the future as your explanation would make more sense than what I interpreted as...but it would be nice to have it clarified for sure...

And my apologies for cheating, that was never my intention (I honestly thought the rule was changed).
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Haboe on January 31, 2013, 06:40:26 PM
I believe that rule refers to cavalry being able to ride up ladders on their horse, not being able to carry them in their hands while on horseback. Ladders have the tag "cannot be used on horseback" for a reason, and therefore I would say doing so is an exploit.

This.

They can use them, not place them if game mechanics don't allow it :)
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 31, 2013, 06:54:27 PM
This.

They can use them, not place them if game mechanics don't allow it :)

That still didn't clarify...you can "use" them from horseback as in you can have them sheathed, but can't pull them out.  Same with shields or weapons that are not useable from horseback, you can still ride a horse with them, they become sheathed and you can't pull them out til you get off the horse.

I'm going to stick with it's illegal to have items that are designated "not useable on horseback" on your body while you are on horseback...unless someone tells me otherwise.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Lt_Anders on January 31, 2013, 07:43:10 PM
Perhaps a clarification on that rule? He does make a point in terms of Not usuable on horseback and not actually using them for quite a few items. Round sheild, awlpike, greatswords to name a few.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Bjarky on January 31, 2013, 09:15:27 PM
he is referring to riding up on ladders or transport them, placing ladders from horseback simply doesn't work anyway, same goes for other items.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Lt_Anders on January 31, 2013, 09:35:26 PM
Crazy and I are referring to THIS:

I believe that rule refers to cavalry being able to ride up ladders on their horse, not being able to carry them in their hands while on horseback. Ladders have the tag "cannot be used on horseback" for a reason, and therefore I would say doing so is an exploit.

And stating that though they have that TAG you can stil mount and dismount with them like a round sheild just they get sheathed and should be fine(?)
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on January 31, 2013, 10:18:40 PM
Feel like I'm beating a dead horse, but yes, what Anders said.  You can still ride a horse with a ladder in your inventory, same with certain round shields that are "not useable from horseback" (like the Huscarl) you can still get a on a horse with them, it just doesn't allow you to pull them out until you get off the horse.

So can you ride horses with ladders in your inventory?  Always thought it was illegal, but would that also make it illegal to be on a horse with any weapon or shield that's "not useable from horseback"?
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Haboe on February 01, 2013, 12:12:33 AM
Just to be clear, crpg rules also count for strategus. Exploiting holes in the game is not allowed (think pikes from horseback (yes its possible in a way))

I have no seperate rule for using ladders from horseback, but it its blocked by game mechanics, i think it is called exploiting when you do so anyway.

Ill ask one of the devs for this just to be sure, i aint got no power to make new rules on the spot (well i can, but it wouldn't be an official rule like the rest)
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Bjarky on February 01, 2013, 01:18:28 AM
yes i think its only the pike that sometimes gliches and become spawnable&usable on horseback for some reason, wich is a bannable offence if u abuse it.
the rest though should be fine to spawn with, since they dont work on horseback, so your merely transporting them, there is no rule against that.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: kinngrimm on February 16, 2013, 12:58:56 AM
    1.2) Ladderplacement. For now there are no rules on unrealistic ladders, so they are allowed. (as long as you keep the other rules in mind)

Ladders from the inside, onto walls, so that more then the half of them are in free air, should be disallowed.
Not only defying physics, but neglecting the enemy to put ladders there as their own then get stuck in mid air and archers on that type of ladders are able to walk into the air so to speak and by that get firing angles which neglect pushes onto those positions. This for me counts to grieving.
But if not taken into the ruleset i will use it from now on to its full extent whenever i get the chance to do so(i will get very creative).

Also if admins wouldn't be aware of all these rules for strategus, it is no the players fault they don't know. So when admins are called to act onto these rules and wouldn't act on it, they are the not doing their job. Meow please make sure every admin who has admin power within strategus battles gets a pm with this ruleset.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Butan on February 16, 2013, 03:27:39 AM
Counter-laddering and ladders fortifications is allowed.
Each ladders cost money, and there is a limit on how many ladders you can have in a specific strategus battle (I think its something like 70?), so it is really only useful to protect/fortify a handful of places or tighten up a small area (like at Chalbek Castle where most of the latest complaints were made, where defenders retreated into the towering inner keep and managed to win by time) or any other creative ideas one can have  :P

More than halfway up in the air is too vague a rule to be set in stone; if a rule must be made it must be something easy to monitor, like : no ladders from x floor level to the same floor level (must always be placed to reach a higher storey). This would buff up the attackers a bit and would not be too hard to manage (except at the beginning when people need to learn a new habit).
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: kinngrimm on February 16, 2013, 04:14:05 AM
(click to show/hide)
i agree on easy, so lets say no ladders for defenders at all, that way also the problem with 50% gear for defenders should be balanced as defenders can't hold every time due to creative laddering.

They build stairs and walls and intersections and shit right into the castles, the ladders to interconnect are nice , but not by those who planed out the castles intended.
You want ladders for villages, everything below Medium for village defenses.

There easy.

And while you mentioned Chalback, well there is Slezkh Castle i was thinking of.
In Slezkh it was mostly because of the firing angles which denied many otherwise suitable tactics,
in Chalback the defender ladders denied us "laddering at all", this is by definition grieving. Well and the firing angles ... going up the stairs, while directly behind you in the air, fucking ranged has a great time shooting you in the back while the wind is blowing around their arses ... [sarcasm]great work defenders you really outsmarted us there[/sarcasm]

Another easy rule?
How about, dont put ladder over the walls as defenders.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: CrazyCracka420 on February 22, 2013, 09:50:49 PM
Where do you draw the line at Kingrim?

Rindyar castle blows dick for trying to assault, there's exactly one "small" wall that the attackers can use ladders to get up, however spanning in front and to the side of this wall is a tower, and there's a keep on the other side.  If the defenders throw a ladder from the keep to the tower (which is about 30 meters above the small wall) any ladder the attackers throw get stuck on this ladder that is twice as high as the top of the ladder being thrown. 

It was extremely annoying as an attacker, but the defenders had a legit reason for throwing their ladder...what can you do there, ask them to remove it so we can throw a ladder?

It would be better if they were able to make it so that a ladder 1000 feet in the air didn't block a 10 foot high ladder from being thrown underneath it.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: kinngrimm on February 23, 2013, 07:15:59 PM
Where do you draw the line at Kinngrim?

....

It would be better if they were able to make it so that a ladder 1000 feet in the air didn't block a 10 foot high ladder from being thrown underneath it.

aslong there is no ruling, there is no line to draw, some castles/towns will be untakeable.
It can happen to everyone, this is what i try to show atm, when people are attacking fiefs and i have a say in the plans to defend them, it will be common practise. Not my fault that there is no a) other type of physics ladders nor b) a ruling that ladders where the second connecting point needs to be behind the mid of a ladder.

I am also aware that any ruling on ladders would be controversial and admins would need to look a lot at ladders ^^ till everyone gets used to it and would just do it as it should be. Then again ... where is this the problem from any player , faction leader ... none-dev/admin?

I am just pissed this is allowed the way it is used atm and i wont just let myself and my troops and gear , where lots of people worked for waisted while the ennemy wouldnt give a shit. With us this using this way now too, they are forced to give a shit, if they don't engage here to get another ruling ... then it will become commen practise i guess.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: MURDERTRON on February 23, 2013, 08:32:28 PM
wrong thread.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Keshian on March 02, 2013, 11:30:00 PM
Strat map
          1) CMP's rules for not attacking your village to delay your enemy  - No longer applies to NA.
          2) Multiaccounting. It is not allowed to own and use multiple more then 1 account on strategus.
          3) Accountsharing. It is not allowed to log into other players accounts.
          4) Night time. Night time is different for each player, therefore there are no rules to the usage of nighttime.
          5) Itembombing a fief. Dropping a lot of items in an enemy fief is not allowed. It causes incredibly long equipment lists for the fief.


Needs to be edited - Rule #1 does not apply in NA.  We assaulted a city 4 times with 3 armies ready to attack it a 5th time.  Smoothrich had a faction membe (Blackzilla) attack the city before we attacked a 5th time and then did a fief trasnfer with no real losses on either side.  Three days later the attacker rejoined smoothrich's faction.  When asked for admins to do something - the response "they are not fallen and we dont hate them - so no nothing will be done, no carpet bombings for semenstorm"

So we requested a global ban for smoothrich and blackzilla for deliberately cheating based on these rules - no answer.

it is clear this rule is no longer enforced (at least in NA) so feel free to attack your own fiefs to delay an attacker's attack.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Haboe on March 04, 2013, 09:29:35 PM
Would be cool if you post here after you edit the original post. This way its easier for us to see what rules changed.


(canary, cmp, other peeps that edit the original post)
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: naduril on October 30, 2014, 02:34:25 PM
What about adding to the rules this:
Forbidden to abuse bugs. Especially that are well known for a long time.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: HESKEYTIME on October 30, 2014, 02:42:28 PM
What about adding to the rules this:
Forbidden to abuse bugs. Especially that are well known for a long time.
When you read the rules, you have to keep Meow's common sense rulen in the back of your mind at all times.
........
          5) Itembombing a fief. Dropping a lot of items in an enemy fief is not allowed. It causes incredibly long equipment lists for the fief.

I think the main issue is that even if the rules are broken, there's currently noone moderating. Ofc if the well known bugs as you mention were fixed then that would largely fix this issue too.

Dunno, chadz said in another thread that they'll look into making a 'Strat team' same as there is now an 'item team' so things may get fixed or moderated more.
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Balikar on June 17, 2015, 12:16:27 AM
Wish some clarification would be made relating to cav spawning, or that the devs would look into fixing it.... but hey, I'm still waiting for the strat reset.  ;-)
Title: Re: Strategus rules
Post by: Lt_Anders on June 17, 2015, 01:27:41 AM
Wish some clarification would be made relating to cav spawning, or that the devs would look into fixing it.... but hey, I'm still waiting for the strat reset.  ;-)

Known issue. It's a feature and needs to remain. I like my advantages!