Author Topic: Strategus for dummies  (Read 28929 times)

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Offline indigocylinder

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2011, 02:10:17 AM »
0
Does the trading distance bonus apply to the heirloomed items I can craft, or just the village specific goods I can make in a given place?

Offline HarunYahya

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #31 on: October 17, 2011, 02:26:02 AM »
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1-Would be nice if we were able to see how many and what kind of goods do our faction members have.
You gonna add something like this soon chadz ?

2-Waypoint system ! Is it on the "to do list " also ?

3-How does a fief increase or decrease its prosperity,what affects this ?

Thanks for answers.

Offline Slamz

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #32 on: October 17, 2011, 04:29:24 AM »
+1
Don't make the market like eve so we risk the 0.01 isk trade wars. It is better people choose themselves somehow from who they want to buy.

I disagree.  Real traders didn't bother with the 0.01 isk trade wars anyway.  That was for chumps.


Lengthy elaboration for anyone in the mood to read and also chadz.

Here is a screenshot of EVE's market:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Eve_Market.png

In the screenshot, note the 2nd and 3rd entries in the "SELLERS" list:
One price of 105,950,000.00
One price of 105,940,000.00

It's two people selling the same thing in the same station and one has undercut the other by a relatively small margin.  The "0.01 isk" game would be to mark your price down by 0.01 isk lower than the current lowest price, which gets you put on top of the charts when people sort by price.


Pirates of the Burning Sea sought to resolve this problem by creating a "blind auction".  In POTBS, you would only see ONE listing for the item, regardless of how many sellers there were, and rather than get shown the current price, you would only see the "last price sold".  So if the last price was 100, I could say "ah ha!" and put my stuff up for 99, smug in the thought that I have undercut the competition.  But since the system is blind, I don't really know what the lowest price is -- the last sale price was 100 but it doesn't tell me if someone else has started listing for 98.  By putting my stuff up for 99, I can't be sure that I am undercutting the competition.

As a buyer, I might go to the market and see the last price was 100, but I would optimistically type in "90" for the price.  If any were available for 90 (or less) then I would pay 90 and get my product.  If not, I would try again with a higher price, trying to flesh out where the real price was.

So POTBS solved the "0.01 isk game" but created something of a hassle for buyers, who may feel inclined to spend a lot of time typing in prices in slowly increasing increments trying to get the best deal possible, since the real price is not listed.


Personally, I say use the EVE system:
List all sellers
Sort by price

Yes, it lets people play the "0.01 gold game" but it's not a problem, and I will tell you why:

Cutthroat Business 101

If someone undercuts you, then you, as a seller, have many solid options:
a) Undercut them by a wider margin, hoping to drive them out of your market by lowering profitability.  If they undercut you again, consider leaving it be -- the low profits may make them decide to stop production soon and do something else instead.
b) Buy all of their stuff and re-sell it at your higher price
c) Look at how many of the item they are selling.  If they aren't selling many, then ignore them -- they will run out of stock and then people will pay your higher price
d) Decide that there's too much competition in this market and start producing something else

We are basically describing a system of economic warfare, facilitated by a market.  In fact, let's not forget option E.

e) Realize that the seller is bringing his goods to the market, and you can stop him by attacking his caravans and following him around the map and beating him up until he relents.

You can damn near get an entire economic wargame JUST from having a fairly simple market setup in a PvP setting.

Frankly, I think this is responsible for at least half of EVE's success.  Pirates vs Traders, Traders vs Traders, Pirates vs Pirates and Clans versus each other and all of the above and a fair amount of it is driven by the market.

And a plainly visible market is all I think you really need.

(The ability to see market prices at other cities without having to travel there can help foster competition between cities.  Both EVE and POTBS have checkboxes so the buyer can specify if he wants to see all prices everywhere or just the local ones.)
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Offline PhantomZero

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #33 on: October 17, 2011, 04:40:02 AM »
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And a plainly visible market is all I think you really need.

(The ability to see market prices at other cities without having to travel there can help foster competition between cities.  Both EVE and POTBS have checkboxes so the buyer can specify if he wants to see all prices everywhere or just the local ones.)

A global market would be very dumb for this style of game, if you want to know the prices, go there yourself. But needless to say, there are going to be hundreds of threads already (and people messaging each other) with the latest prices in each town, so you might as well not bother chadz with coding it into the game, and let something on the forums develop.
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Offline Slamz

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2011, 09:35:43 AM »
+1
A global market would be very dumb for this style of game, if you want to know the prices, go there yourself. But needless to say, there are going to be hundreds of threads already (and people messaging each other) with the latest prices in each town, so you might as well not bother chadz with coding it into the game, and let something on the forums develop.

Could say the same thing about Pirates of the Burning Sea, which was basically set in the 17th-18th centuries.

You could list other city prices under a section called "rumors" if you want to add a little RP to it.  Your character asked the local traders and got feedback.

But I agree -- players can sort this out on their own in the forums.  You just have to ask yourself if you really want to see forums that consist entirely of post after post after post of "DISCOUNT HUSKARL SHIELDS, COME TO SARGOTH! 20% OFF WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!" or if maybe you'd rather just see it listed in game.
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Offline PhantomZero

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2011, 12:29:56 PM »
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Could say the same thing about Pirates of the Burning Sea, which was basically set in the 17th-18th centuries.

You could list other city prices under a section called "rumors" if you want to add a little RP to it.  Your character asked the local traders and got feedback.

But I agree -- players can sort this out on their own in the forums.  You just have to ask yourself if you really want to see forums that consist entirely of post after post after post of "DISCOUNT HUSKARL SHIELDS, COME TO SARGOTH! 20% OFF WHILE SUPPLIES LAST!" or if maybe you'd rather just see it listed in game.

To be honest I would rather have waypoints or something than seeing it listed in game.
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Offline Slamz

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2011, 01:25:00 PM »
+1
To be honest I would rather have waypoints or something than seeing it listed in game.

Yes, I would rather have a glass of beer than a cheeseburger.

Ideally, I would have both.
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Offline Konrax

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #37 on: October 17, 2011, 01:27:37 PM »
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So how many troops can you actually have now without paying upkeep?

36?
50?
100?
>9000?

Offline Dalhi

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #38 on: October 17, 2011, 01:32:18 PM »
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According to this you can have up to 48 49 troops without paying upkeep.

Edit. So it is 49.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 03:58:45 PM by Dalhi »

Offline Konrax

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2011, 01:44:12 PM »
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According to this you can have up to 48(?, still need some confirmation about it) troops without paying upkeep.

Thanks

Offline Dehitay

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2011, 03:53:40 PM »
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According to this you can have up to 48(?, still need some confirmation about it) troops without paying upkeep.
I'm calculating it at 49

(49^1.03 * 1.8 - 100)/24 = -0.0365413827
(50^1.03 * 1.8 - 100)/24 = 0.0503019395

Fun side note: The cost of funding an army of equal size to a village at regular population for the 24 hours till the battle actually starts
500^1.03 * 1.8 - 100 = 984.455185
Gear isn't all you have to worry about now, suckas!
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 03:56:39 PM by Dehitay »

Offline Slamz

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #41 on: October 17, 2011, 05:27:13 PM »
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I'm calculating it at 49

(49^1.03 * 1.8 - 100)/24 = -0.0365413827
(50^1.03 * 1.8 - 100)/24 = 0.0503019395

Fun side note: The cost of funding an army of equal size to a village at regular population for the 24 hours till the battle actually starts
500^1.03 * 1.8 - 100 = 984.455185
Gear isn't all you have to worry about now, suckas!

It's been said that you aren't meant to take villages yet.  chadz is planning to adjust the populations at some point (and probably isn't done fiddling with other costs either).
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Offline chadz

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #42 on: October 17, 2011, 08:43:13 PM »
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updated

Offline Knute

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #43 on: October 17, 2011, 11:03:40 PM »
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Could items be put on a market in villages and such?
I am coding a towncenter as we speak. It will be only available in towns. You can put goods and/or equipment up for sale. People can buy from the stack, either some or all items. The money will be saved in the towns bank and can be recovered when you re-visit the town.


Will we be able to deposit gold in these town banks or just collect?

Offline Aseldo

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Re: Strategus for dummies
« Reply #44 on: October 19, 2011, 05:02:51 AM »
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So the higher the prosperity the higher goods will sell for? is there any percentages for how much goods will decrease or increase in price based on prosperity?