Author Topic: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage  (Read 2569 times)

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Offline Admerius

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Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« on: July 25, 2014, 11:21:16 AM »
+7
(click to show/hide)

TL;DR Change ranged so that it can glance if it doesn't hit center mass on hitbox or something similar

---Long description---
For great realism!

Warning! Trigonometry stuff inside, please put on math-gear.

Disregard this post if it is impossible to:
-Add a "centerpoint" in hitboxes(head and body needs this added for this to make sense)
-Check the angle of an incoming projectile when hits the hitbox in respect to a predfined "centerpoint" in the hitbox.

Possible stuff that might make this topic totally pointless=cRPG/WSE can't support wokring with trigonometry at all(angles, sin/cos/tan and or [math]vectors)


Look at the awesome artwork of a model with centerpoint marked out and arrows coming in:
(click to show/hide)

Arrow 1,2,3 & 4 has a trajecotry through centerpoint in the model=full dmag

Arrow 5 has about a 45 degree angle, nerf dmg by 1-( sin(angle of impact)^4 ) that's roughly -25% dmg
Arrow 6 has about 40 degree angle, dmg according to formula: -around -15 to -20% dmg
Arrow 7 has close to 90 degrees, dmg penalty becomes 40-50%


If this works then ranged might need a MINOR dmg buff.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Additions after topic creation:

1. Huscarlton suggested armor bonus instead of damage bonus, it seems more sensible.
2. San's questions about Arrow 5 and its high penalty lead me to think of maybe basing half of the penalty on angle it impacts the hitbox and the other half based on angle towards centerpoint.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2014, 09:29:01 AM by Admerius »

Offline Huscarlton_Banks

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2014, 07:55:17 PM »
+1
I know that the module system supports trigonometry (or that there is at least one open source series of scripts that uses it), and that cRPG has something called "rotation" for reg0 on ti_on_agent_hit.

I'm not on my desktop, so I can't check my module system files.

AFAIK cRPG just looks for the hit_bone whenever a player is hit, I'm not sure there's a method native to WSE that finds the position of the bone/rotation of the bone. I think a WSE update would be necessary to grab missile rotation on hit for triggers.

Game balance-wise/realism-wise I think this would make a bit more sense if this mechanic used an armor bonus rather than a direct damage penalty.

Offline Penitent

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #2 on: July 28, 2014, 07:00:51 PM »
+2
Nah.  An off center hit may pierce a heart or lung more easily than a center hit, depending on where the arrow enters.  Also, hitting a limb, an arrow may or may not more easily severe a major nerve or artery and cause more damage that way, as opposed to entering directly to the center of mass and hitting a femur bone or something.

So, according to realism, I disagree.

Offline Admerius

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2014, 11:14:20 PM »
0
@Huscarlton: Yes armor buff seems more sensible.

Nah.  An off center hit may pierce a heart or lung more easily than a center hit, depending on where the arrow enters.  Also, hitting a limb, an arrow may or may not more easily severe a major nerve or artery and cause more damage that way, as opposed to entering directly to the center of mass and hitting a femur bone or something.

So, according to realism, I disagree.

I see your point but still... Do you honestly prefer the current system where hitting where center thigh deals the same amount of damage as hitting a toe?

This is more of a suggestion to get the ranged more realistic compared to what we have now and to add some interesting mechanics, especially compared to melee. This actually make it possible to buff accuracy more on ranged when 10cm difference on where you land the hit on the hitbox might mean the difference between Dead kuyak hero or just doing half of that in damage(still hitting the same hitbox)

Offline San

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2014, 11:48:36 PM »
0
Hitting a toe is 70%, calf is 85%.

One thing I am confused about is why arrow 5 would give such a drastic reduction of damage. Wouldn't something like matching the angle of the arrow to the normal vector of the surface at that point make sense as some sort of penetration factor?

Offline Huscarlton_Banks

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #5 on: July 29, 2014, 12:01:10 AM »
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Arrow 5 kind of makes sense if the arrow's hitting someone with plate, the angle would cause it to get deflected.

Squishy people not so much.

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #6 on: July 29, 2014, 12:18:47 AM »
+4
Considering the fact that the torso itself consists of 3 separate hit capsules, even if implemented, this would likely have major unintended side-effects. You could hit someone dead center(on screen) and suffer a damage penalty due to having a bad angle on that specific capsule.
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Offline Admerius

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #7 on: July 29, 2014, 09:25:30 AM »
0
Hitting a toe is 70%, calf is 85%.

One thing I am confused about is why arrow 5 would give such a drastic reduction of damage. Wouldn't something like matching the angle of the arrow to the normal vector of the surface at that point make sense as some sort of penetration factor?

I intentionally over simplified it to maximize the the possibility to get my idea across.

Arrow 5 "seems" to get some strange penalties, that is why I added it specifically. I wanted to demonstrate that hitting with 0 degree difference towards center of hitbox is the way to aim if this suggestion is added.

You do have a good point though, maybe adding that angle towards "centerpoint" and angle towards hitbox surface BOT influence dmg penalty(or armor boost)

@Tydeus:
That sounds like a major reservation, not opposition from your part :)
That is something that needs to be addressed asap if this dmg penalty(armor bonus) is implemented.
Would you still like to test this system?

Offline Tydeus

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2014, 03:58:53 AM »
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I don't know enough to say whether or not this could be done as things stand right now. What I do know though, is that this doesn't interest me enough to cause me to change my priorities, especially because there would still be other hurdles to overcome, assuming you could get this system to work.
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Offline Son Of Odin

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2014, 03:45:49 AM »
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Everyone would wear plate and run sideways + forward so majority the hit boxes would be corner first towards archers at all times :D
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Offline Grumbs

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2014, 12:20:25 PM »
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Might be an interesting way to encourage ranged to make accurate shots, but I think headshots do that already to some extent. Also I think the curvature of the surface you hit is whats important, and how perpendicular the arrow is as it comes in. More curve and more angle = thicker armour
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Offline Roran Hawkins

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2014, 01:01:50 AM »
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Perhaps work with a %?

If you hit a target at a certain bad angle, and then you have for example at this angle hitting that target there gives +10% body armour value for this single arrow hit => It hardly does anything for weak armour (the arrow would just penetrate your flesh) but with heavier armours (anything up from gambesons in general) would have an actual effect due to 'catching' the arrow before it pierces your skin, and from that point on increasingly lessening blunt trauma, up to the point where at plate armours you'd hardly take any damage due to a glancing arrow.

Ofcourse, implementing this, if possible at all, would perhaps require an archery buff idd. Dependant on how much armour value is improved at a 'bad' hit, I would propose to buff the damage the bows so when they actually hit you with a good angle and 'penetrate' they do some damage.

Offline MURDERTRON

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2014, 04:03:49 PM »
+1
If one arrow can weigh 10kg, make it so getting hit with an arrow slows you down by 10kg.  Another arrow won't slow you down any further though, not until you hit a full quiver amount.
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Offline Kafein

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2014, 10:35:54 AM »
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If it was possible from a performance standpoint the game would simulate deflection/penetration according to armor and arrow material and actual angle of collision on the armor. I think this suggestion shows a reasonable way of emulating that.

Offline Ulter

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Re: Angle of incoming projectile should affect damage
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2014, 11:57:05 PM »
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I don't think something like this makes much sense if you don't have actual armour hitboxes. (for example open helmets giving no protection to the uncovered face, mail shirts leaving the arms exposed etc.)