Poll

What's your opinion on this 6½ hour "documentary"?

Old news, already working on reviving this man's visions
3 (14.3%)
Wow! The world needs to know about these lies
2 (9.5%)
The series is well made and has a good choice of music, but in the end it's just a conspiracy flick
2 (9.5%)
IP tracked, expect a visit from the Multiculturalists... you idiot!
10 (47.6%)
Give them run
4 (19%)

Total Members Voted: 21

Author Topic: The Greatest Story Never Told  (Read 2200 times)

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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2017, 09:46:24 PM »
+1
Let's say your grandparents were raped, tortured and humiliated in most brutal ways. Then some little bundle of sticks kid comes up and yells "holocause never happened xDDDD". Would you still respect his "freedom of speech"? It's one thing to be simply deluded like the flat Earth people, they don't really harm anyone, and sensible people know what's true anyway. But ignorant internet "scholars" who shit on your history for whatever reason are another thing.

Sure, why shouldnt i respect his freedom of speech? I simply wouldnt give a shit about what he says, he's just being a moron. Not like we live in saudi arabia or something, "you offend my religion? infidel, you must be whipped 1000 times!", just move on.

Offline njames89

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2017, 11:38:55 PM »
0
It's all just noises coming out of the mouth of an ape
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Offline Kratos

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #32 on: April 12, 2017, 06:09:36 AM »
0
I was browsing till the beginning to find where the necro begun. There was no necro. Much disappoint.

It's all about the person who claims shit's influence on society, a certain group or you. If a known historian claimed that holocaust is a lie, you'd respect and listen as he is most likely more educated than you in the subject. But if you are confident in your knowledge, no matter how many edgelord kidz approached and said "holokost is lie XD" you would be invincible.

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zis all around. We don't learn WW2 or NG in school. All my knowledge is internet learned so as every other Turks'.
The accusation doesn't mean much for us.

This whole thing I was trying to explain to people about Armenian Genocide few years ago, just to face a downvote spam :(
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 06:12:47 AM by Kratos »
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Offline Torben

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #33 on: April 12, 2017, 08:56:42 AM »
+1
"Im Zweifel für die Freiheit"  is the credo of the peps of the first senate that made our constitution.  Translates kinda like "if in doubt,  decide for freedom (of speech)" 

The high court in this first senate had a really hard time figuring out if,  or if not to restrict the freedom of speech in this matter.  However,  in the end,  they where not in doubt:  their consensus was that the prevention of an affirmation of the NS reign of 33-45 is of paramount importance for inner and outer security.

my 2cents:  you have to see this decision in context:  although a nationwide dechocolate chip cookiefication was going on,  many of the people in power in post war germany where to some extent involved in the NS state.  A heap of the population was still indoctrinated with NS ideology,  and many germans still where convinced that a victory of NS ideology was possible.

the Federal Republic was a counter model to NS germany,  and as that couldnt tolerate falsification of the NS inheritance.  On an ethical level,   its just as important to safe guard these facts,  for humanity to have a chance of learning from it.  Zero tolerance towards denial seems a fair tradeoff for that effort.

edit:  "dechocolate chip cookiefication "

lol
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 08:59:49 AM by Torben »
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #34 on: April 12, 2017, 04:52:43 PM »
0
Sure, why shouldnt i respect his freedom of speech? I simply wouldnt give a shit about what he says, he's just being a moron. Not like we live in saudi arabia or something, "you offend my religion? infidel, you must be whipped 1000 times!", just move on.

If you print slander in published media about an individual or a company, just something you've made up without evidence, you get fined obnoxious amounts of money in a court of law. Nobody gets precious about freedom of speech in this instance. A moron in public could still say these things, just not publish it as fact.

If you print flat holocaust denial without evidence in media then a court of law also decides your level of guilt (in some countries). Is this really so different?
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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #35 on: April 12, 2017, 04:59:57 PM »
0
If you print slander in published media about an individual or a company, just something you've made up without evidence, you get fined obnoxious amounts of money in a court of law. Nobody gets precious about freedom of speech in this instance. A moron in public could still say these things, just not publish it as fact.

If you print flat holocaust denial without evidence in media then a court of law also decides your level of guilt (in some countries). Is this really so different?

Do they? It seems like thats been going on a lot over in the US, and all thats happened is that the news lost credibility, as they should. News outlets on the internet are constantly publishing a bunch bullshit, but its so easily dismissed that you just laugh at it and move on.

Offline Bittersteel

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #36 on: April 12, 2017, 05:05:38 PM »
0
Is this really so different?

Yes, yes it is.

You're hurting a brand - they have the right to sue you (they may or may not win in court).

vs.

You're claiming that something that happened 70 years ago didn't happen. Who's gonna sue you? The deceased jews that were victims of the holocaust?
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #37 on: April 12, 2017, 05:10:48 PM »
0
Let's say your grandparents were raped, tortured and humiliated in most brutal ways. Then some little bundle of sticks kid comes up and yells "holocause never happened xDDDD". Would you still respect his "freedom of speech"? It's one thing to be simply deluded like the flat Earth people, they don't really harm anyone, and sensible people know what's true anyway. But ignorant internet "scholars" who shit on your history for whatever reason are another thing.

And here's the best thing - as long as that little bundle of sticks comes up to you in person and says 'holocause never happened xDDDD' as long as he avoids doing so "in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace" he is still legally able to do so even in Germany (or at least he doesn't explicitly break the specific laws against Holocaust denial). So yelling it in your face is probably not allowed but otherwise yay freedom of speech. It would probably be a stupid idea if he values his own existence, but freedom of speech wins again. Hurrah.

It's way out of proportion to say that it's a blanket ban on discussing or assessing the established history.

Do they? It seems like thats been going on a lot over in the US, and all thats happened is that the news lost credibility, as they should. News outlets on the internet are constantly publishing a bunch bullshit, but its so easily dismissed that you just laugh at it and move on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39575680
Melania Trump wins damages from Daily Mail over 'escort' allegation
The Daily Mail published allegations Mrs Trump "provided services beyond simply modelling"

The media does post any old garbage. But personal accusations without evidence are considered slander, go to court, and reward you with big $$$

Why should you be able to slander a country's-worth of people in a written publication when you wouldn't be allowed to slander a single person? Again, you can publish opinion but not 'slander'.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #38 on: April 12, 2017, 05:28:32 PM »
0
And here's the best thing - as long as that little bundle of sticks comes up to you in person and says 'holocause never happened xDDDD' as long as he avoids doing so "in a manner capable of disturbing the public peace" he is still legally able to do so even in Germany (or at least he doesn't explicitly break the specific laws against Holocaust denial). So yelling it in your face is probably not allowed but otherwise yay freedom of speech. It would probably be a stupid idea if he values his own existence, but freedom of speech wins again. Hurrah.

It's way out of proportion to say that it's a blanket ban on discussing or assessing the established history.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-39575680
Melania Trump wins damages from Daily Mail over 'escort' allegation
The Daily Mail published allegations Mrs Trump "provided services beyond simply modelling"

The media does post any old garbage. But personal accusations without evidence are considered slander, go to court, and reward you with big $$$

Why should you be able to slander a country's-worth of people in a written publication when you wouldn't be allowed to slander a single person? Again, you can publish opinion but not 'slander'.

Even then, the holocaust denial does have some pretty thorough bases to base the opinions on, so it cant really be considered slander.
I wonder how suing for slander would work against any online paper, there are so many posting slander there that its just become an everyday thing. To the point where you just lose credibility in the paper posting that trash, and move on. The way it should work, no need to sue anyone.

Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #39 on: April 12, 2017, 05:40:56 PM »
0
Even then, the holocaust denial does have some pretty thorough bases to base the opinions on, so it cant really be considered slander.
I wonder how suing for slander would work against any online paper, there are so many posting slander there that its just become an everyday thing. To the point where you just lose credibility in the paper posting that trash, and move on. The way it should work, no need to sue anyone.

The validity of your sourcing has an impact in both scenarios.

If the Daily Mail had been able to provide evidence to support their claim it wouldn't have been slander - no cash payout. But they were not able to provide that, so were doomed to fail.

If your Holocaust denial is a well put together historical assessment then the outcome of any court battle may also go differently. Any that do not, 'holocause never happened xDDDD', are doomed to fail.

However, you're climbing a steep mountain with that last one since proving that claim with sufficient evidence is a monumental task. To avoid being immediately panned, it not only needs to provide strong evidence that supports the argument but provide a reasonable assessment of all the historical evidence that supports the notion that it did happen. This is a feat I've never seen anyone achieve despite the freedom of most countries to publish articles or books on this subject, even the best arguments I've seen only ever nail that 'I found a source that supports me' part, never an acceptable explanation for every other source out there that disproves it.

It's like doing GCSE's all over again, you're given 7 sources and asked 'based on the evidence before you, assess the view that ____'. If you only talk about the 1 source that agrees with you and ignore the others you fail.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2017, 05:46:16 PM by HESKEYTIME »
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