Poll

What's your opinion on this 6½ hour "documentary"?

Old news, already working on reviving this man's visions
4 (17.4%)
Wow! The world needs to know about these lies
2 (8.7%)
The series is well made and has a good choice of music, but in the end it's just a conspiracy flick
2 (8.7%)
IP tracked, expect a visit from the Multiculturalists... you idiot!
10 (43.5%)
Give them run
5 (21.7%)

Total Members Voted: 23

Author Topic: The Greatest Story Never Told  (Read 3409 times)

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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2017, 12:36:57 PM »
0
One thing that I've noticed is that during these "propaganda" movies they never put the allied forces / enemies in bad light but try to give them as much respect as possible, haven't really seen that in allied counterparts, or well at least yet. The history and aftermath of WW2 can be a bit dodgy some places, the victor writes history after all. So personally I think it's better to look at stuff that was documented and written down during the war rather than after.

With propaganda you work with the situation you're given, the side that's expanding aggressively and the side trying to stop this have been dealt different hands. When your opponent is the aggressor it makes little sense to depict them in a positive light, you want to convince your people that surrender is not an option.

On the one hand contemporary wartime accounts have less of 'history written by the winner' but at the same time nobody in the West fully knew what was going on in NG until the land invasion of Germany took place. I suspect accounts would be different if they did, I know Chaplin was allegedly very unhappy about his satire 'The Great Dictator' after they learned the extent of what had happened.
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2017, 01:00:17 PM »
+1
As for the OP I think that a lot of stuff talking / education about Hilter is a bit too villainous, or am I wrong? Well at least when I learned about him in school our history books doesn't really put him in a bad light but more neutral observation than trying to make him seem like the devil, while in other books / sources it's a lot different.

I think most historical study is aware that it needs to be amoral. Learning about the things that actually happened rather than judging if the past was right or wrong, trying to learn people's motivations (where indicated) rather than trying to justify/denounce their causes.

But it's not always perfect at school.

Over here we mostly study Nazi Germany and WW2 when we're 15-16 years old. At that point we were given sources, and very disconnected 'this happened, then this happened, in this year X happened', and learnt how to make arguments and assertions that are supported by the sources you have been given where you are solidly penalised for ignoring the sources or drawing logically ass conclusions from it (*cue unkind comment about majority of forum posters*). I think that was good.

But when we're younger, 12-13 years old we learn about British Empire and transatlantic slave trade. And instead of critical analysis of sources and the context, it's nearly entirely 'Look at this slave ship, look how little space you have, imagine how that must feel' and 'Write a letter imagining slaver devils have taken you from your family and home land and you will never see them again'. If you never take further study or an interest in later life you'll never explore this topic in further detail. I don't know if it's because of the age it's taught at, or because of the specific topic, but that's how it's 'taught'.
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Offline Ikarus

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2017, 02:54:02 PM »
0
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

But it is
Quote
He who operates in a manner characterized other than that in § § 3a – 3f will be punished
Quote
whoever denies, grossly plays down, approves or tries to excuse the National Socialist genocide or other National Socialist crimes against humanity in a print publication, in broadcast or other media

Quote
yeaaah I don´t want to go to jail, thanks  :?
I guess I overdid it with the sarcasm, sorry for the confusion.

research is fine, actively denying it isn´t
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Offline Bittersteel

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #18 on: April 11, 2017, 03:21:00 PM »
+1
Questioning the holocaust, which you so perfectly displayed, is illegal in many countries and can result in either fines or jailtime. Am I allowed to question the extermination of 8 million christians in Ukraine by the communists? Yes I am, why should I be thrown in jail for saying "These numbers don't add up, this seems unlikely" about the holocaust?

When asked what the germans have done to the jews, you must also ask what the jews have done the germans. This is very important to understanding the holocaust and why it happened. This could however be portrayed as "excusing the genocide of the jews".

So let me be clear, even if I think the holocaust happened, you should without a doubt be allowed to "deny" its existence without fear of repercussion.

Offline Gurgumul

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2017, 03:42:47 PM »
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2017, 03:46:06 PM »
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even if I think the holocaust happened, you should without a doubt be allowed to "deny" its existence without fear of repercussion.

Why?
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Online njames89

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2017, 04:02:39 PM »
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Why?

Don't you think people should be able to say whatever they want? I mean otherwise who gets to play the language police and determine what is and is not offensive?

Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2017, 04:21:48 PM »
+2
Don't you think people should be able to say whatever they want? I mean otherwise who gets to play the language police and determine what is and is not offensive?

Deny the existence of a major historical event in a print publication, broadcast or other media without sufficient evidence? Denial for the sake of denial, or an anti-intellectual exercise to see how far you can push 'muh freedom of speech'.

Maybe you could argue that pig-headed denial is a human right or something. Maybe it is. But what's the 'pro' argument for the publication and exportation of this denial?

Forget 'people should be able to...', I think that people already can do and say anything they want. Anything at all. But everything has repercussions, and if you don't consider your surroundings and context before acting then maybe you go to jail or maybe win the Darwin awards. That's a fairly general rule for the world we live in. If you crave attention and wish to deny the holocaust without sufficient evidence for no particular reason you can do so. Some places you'll get arrested. Some places you'll get beaten up. Some places maybe neither of those things will happen.

Questioning things based on evidence and outright denying something without evidence are not equal actions, they are not treated equally.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2017, 04:42:33 PM by HESKEYTIME »
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Offline IR_Kuoin

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2017, 05:53:51 PM »
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Jews weren't gassed.
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2017, 06:13:15 PM »
+1
Deny the existence of a major historical event in a print publication, broadcast or other media without sufficient evidence? Denial for the sake of denial, or an anti-intellectual exercise to see how far you can push 'muh freedom of speech'.

Maybe you could argue that pig-headed denial is a human right or something. Maybe it is. But what's the 'pro' argument for the publication and exportation of this denial?

Forget 'people should be able to...', I think that people already can do and say anything they want. Anything at all. But everything has repercussions, and if you don't consider your surroundings and context before acting then maybe you go to jail or maybe win the Darwin awards. That's a fairly general rule for the world we live in. If you crave attention and wish to deny the holocaust without sufficient evidence for no particular reason you can do so. Some places you'll get arrested. Some places you'll get beaten up. Some places maybe neither of those things will happen.

Questioning things based on evidence and outright denying something without evidence are not equal actions, they are not treated equally.

Even without evidence, denying anything shouldnt be something that can result in you going to jail. Flat earthers shouldnt be jailed for example. Im sure there are people that deny things based on nothing, just a gut feeling but should ignorance really be the grounds for punishment? Either way, there are some rather interesting contradictory things swirling around the holocaust, and to me they dont seem like straight up denial out of nowhere, but quite researched and logical ideas.
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Offline Rest_in_Peace

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2017, 06:25:44 PM »
+1
Jews weren't gassed.

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Online njames89

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 06:52:39 PM »
+1
Don't get me wrong I am really just playing dickheads advocate here. It's full retard to deny the Holocaust but I tend to lean towards free speech being an important right. Despite that it means more morons speaking aswell.

Offline Ikarus

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2017, 06:58:32 PM »
+1
Quote
Deny the existence of a major historical event in a print publication, broadcast or other media without sufficient evidence? Denial for the sake of denial, or an anti-intellectual exercise to see how far you can push 'muh freedom of speech'.

Maybe you could argue that pig-headed denial is a human right or something. Maybe it is. But what's the 'pro' argument for the publication and exportation of this denial?

Amen

Don't get me wrong I am really just playing dickheads advocate here. It's full retard to deny the Holocaust but I tend to lean towards free speech being an important right. Despite that it means more morons speaking aswell.

Yeah, the problem is that a majority of people are mixing up "freedom of speech" with "I can spew anything at anyone"
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Offline Gravoth_iii

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 07:31:44 PM »
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The exercise of spreading controversial things can help, if only to make people more aware of their studies, is it all actually correct? Is there any other side to the coin, and is it in any sense reasonable? How easily is it dismissed, maybe it actually does have something to consider. We should never get used to thinking that everything taught is correct, and should always question everything constantly (at least to a healthy amount).

Thought policing is terrifying, surpressing freedom of speech is too. You can spew anything at me anyday, i can dismiss it if i dont agree with it, but never ever would i want someone jailed for saying something to me that i disagreed with.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" Evelyn Beatrice Hall.
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Offline Gurgumul

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Re: The Greatest Story Never Told
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2017, 09:17:40 PM »
+2
Let's say your grandparents were raped, tortured and humiliated in most brutal ways. Then some little bundle of sticks kid comes up and yells "holocause never happened xDDDD". Would you still respect his "freedom of speech"? It's one thing to be simply deluded like the flat Earth people, they don't really harm anyone, and sensible people know what's true anyway. But ignorant internet "scholars" who shit on your history for whatever reason are another thing.
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