Author Topic: The Crusades in the Holy Land  (Read 15743 times)

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Offline CtrlAltDe1337

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #15 on: January 29, 2011, 10:55:50 PM »
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The first Crusade which began in 1096 was formed, writes Gibbon, mostly of thieves and criminals. This was the consequence of the Council of Clermont in 1095 in which the Pope proclaimed that anyone who joined the Crusade would be given full dispensation of all his sins and would be relieved of any criminal penance he might owe.

A failure from the start fmo.
You should probably say "sinners" instead of "criminals."  And don't forget the very important noblemen who joined and fought in the Crusade, or the masses of peasants who joined mainly out of piety.  And it did end up succeeding; perhaps surprisingly, but it did.  I wouldn't call that a complete failure.
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Offline Noctivagant

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2011, 03:26:25 AM »
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You should probably say "sinners" instead of "criminals."  And don't forget the very important noblemen who joined and fought in the Crusade, or the masses of peasants who joined mainly out of piety.  And it did end up succeeding; perhaps surprisingly, but it did.  I wouldn't call that a complete failure.

Sinner criminals etc. You promise 72 or wtf number of virgins to a guy and he below himself up, whats the difference?
crusade=terrorism. If it was successful tell me about Mescidi Aksa? whats your degree of success or evidence? That Israeli fuck Palestinians? its chaos there since the known history.
Well I could call it complete failure yes and why?
First wave = criminals
Second wave = templars, noble man no doubt about it honestly.

End of Templar : burnt on a stick = failure = betrayal by whom?
And Christians still hail that child molester protector as "Holy Man" here is my answer my friend. I'm writing on that low level because you don't know what you are talking about.
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Offline Oberyn

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2011, 10:48:12 AM »
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Please you Muslim guys need to chill the fuck out. Don't make me bring out the history of the spread of Islam as comparison, cause it isn't pretty. It is no different than any other conquest or war based on religion, i.e using religion as an excuse and justification but truly all about power and wealth.
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Offline LordBerenger

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2011, 07:13:59 PM »
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Yes yes. Now let's calm down.

New topic!

The supposedly myth ''Childrens Crusade''

Was it reality or just rubbish?
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Offline FF_GeorgeWashington

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2011, 07:51:56 PM »
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Sinner criminals etc. You promise 72 or wtf number of virgins to a guy and he below himself up, whats the difference?
crusade=terrorism. If it was successful tell me about Mescidi Aksa? whats your degree of success or evidence? That Israeli fuck Palestinians? its chaos there since the known history.
Well I could call it complete failure yes and why?
First wave = criminals
Second wave = templars, noble man no doubt about it honestly.

End of Templar : burnt on a stick = failure = betrayal by whom?
And Christians still hail that child molester protector as "Holy Man" here is my answer my friend. I'm writing on that low level because you don't know what you are talking about.

Yo, I'm not sure if this euro is trolling or just retarded.
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Offline CtrlAltDe1337

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2011, 03:27:33 AM »
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Yo, I'm not sure if this euro is trolling or just retarded.
I was thinking the same thing.  I'll go with the former.
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Offline Duster

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2011, 12:16:23 AM »
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Sinner criminals etc. You promise 72 or wtf number of virgins to a guy and he below himself up, whats the difference?
crusade=terrorism. If it was successful tell me about Mescidi Aksa? whats your degree of success or evidence? That Israeli fuck Palestinians? its chaos there since the known history.
Well I could call it complete failure yes and why?
First wave = criminals
Second wave = templars, noble man no doubt about it honestly.

End of Templar : burnt on a stick = failure = betrayal by whom?
And Christians still hail that child molester protector as "Holy Man" here is my answer my friend. I'm writing on that low level because you don't know what you are talking about.



......dude what


This is a historical conversation, not somewhere to rage about how much you hate religion
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Offline CtrlAltDe1337

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2011, 05:29:37 AM »
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I think we killed this thread...oh well.
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2011, 11:01:32 PM »
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The Crusades was justified by Saint Augustine's Just War Doctrine, as the Saracens closed off Christian access to the holy land and threatened to destroy The Church of the Holy Sepulchre. It also was an attempt to reintegrate Palestine into Byzantine territory, but Constantinople refused to help the crusaders and left them to their fate.

In essence, it was considered by the Christians to be a defensive war, and not an offensive one.

Offline krampe

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #24 on: February 03, 2011, 11:11:46 AM »
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In essence, it was considered by the Christians to be a defensive war, and not an offensive one.

Like searching for weapons of mass destruction?

EDIT: Fixed the context for duster :p
« Last Edit: February 03, 2011, 12:34:24 PM by krampe »
Sacrum Romanum Imperium

Yeah, well you know, that's just like, your opinion, man.

Offline Duster

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2011, 11:30:40 AM »
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Like searching for weapon of mass desctruction?

I'm not really sure what this is referring to at all, but it's safe to assume that this statement is misguided at best
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Offline Thucydides

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2011, 05:57:26 PM »
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SO much trolling

Offline partyboy

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2011, 12:13:09 AM »
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The Crusades was justified by Saint Augustine's Just War Doctrine, as the Saracens closed off Christian access to the holy land and threatened to destroy The Church of the Holy Sepulchre. It also was an attempt to reintegrate Palestine into Byzantine territory, but Constantinople refused to help the crusaders and left them to their fate.

In essence, it was considered by the Christians to be a defensive war, and not an offensive one.

You know the Israelis consider the blockade of Gaza and operations like Cast Lead to be "defensive".

And America seemed to think it's invasions have been "Just".
Subject displays signs of antisocial behaviour
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Offline LordBerenger

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2011, 12:54:44 AM »
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And now we're pretty off topic o.O Oh what the heck  :rolleyes:
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Offline schionatulander

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Re: The Crusades in the Holy Land
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2011, 02:01:40 PM »
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We see that nothing has changed since 1000 years. religion is abused for power and wealth interests. every war ever started pretended to be a defensive one.
back to the main topic: the first crusade was the result of the famous speech of urban II., to get the knights to fight against the sarrazenes. in fact it was a new strategy after the plan of gregory VII. didn't succeed to build a papal army (militia sancti petri). the later founded knight orders were a solution to this problem, because they were under control of the pope. bernard of clairvaux, who wrote the templars order, combined the metaphorical use of "militia christi" (army of christ) that meaned the struggle inside the soul against the evil, with the literal use of the word as fight against "infidels".