Author Topic: Agincourt  (Read 27529 times)

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Offline Leesin

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Re: Agincourt
« Reply #165 on: August 30, 2015, 09:00:27 PM »
0
Gibson wouldn't abase himself to play a frenchie.

He would if it involves killing and beating the English, he hates us.

Offline Siiem

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Re: Agincourt
« Reply #166 on: August 30, 2015, 11:37:25 PM »
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He would if it involves killing and beating the English, he hates us.

Irrelevant, everyone hates the English. Even your own neighbours, they probably more than anyone.

Offline Casimir

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Re: Agincourt
« Reply #167 on: August 31, 2015, 04:38:11 AM »
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Irrelevant, everyone hates the English. Even your own neighbours, they probably more than anyone.

50% of the English hate the other 50% and within those 50% most of them hate each other as well.
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Offline woody

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Re: Agincourt
« Reply #168 on: August 31, 2015, 06:33:53 PM »
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A test using a 75 lb longbow, to simulate a 100lb longbow, which was way below the wieght of the warbow anyway. Add in the fact the heavier draws were effective because used much heavier arrows, please do some proper research if you doubt this, and you have a test using a .22 calibre rifle with .22 ammo, to simulate a .303 firing .22 ammo, the work out whether a .50 cal firing .50 cal ammo would do something. If you cannot see the absurdity of this I give up.

Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: Agincourt
« Reply #169 on: August 31, 2015, 09:27:37 PM »
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A test using a 75 lb longbow, to simulate a 100lb longbow, which was way below the wieght of the warbow anyway. Add in the fact the heavier draws were effective because used much heavier arrows, please do some proper research if you doubt this, and you have a test using a .22 calibre rifle with .22 ammo, to simulate a .303 firing .22 ammo, the work out whether a .50 cal firing .50 cal ammo would do something. If you cannot see the absurdity of this I give up.

Very scientifically flawed, lots of approximations. Misses out that arrow weight would also need to be scaled up etc

Also very logically flawed, his table still shows lethal penetration on nearly every test, some of which he shrugs off as 'they probably wouldnt have died'. He conveniently ignores his own results (which were, to be fair, a product of terrible scientific method) in the text of his essay

Finally, his conclusion is set out to explain how he has proved that the longbow could not penetrate plate. Now, actually read his final paragraph:

(click to show/hide)

That conclusion seems to be saying that the longbow can actually breach plate, or is it just me? His methodology is shit all round, but why oh why does this essay get circulated to prove that the longbow cant pierce plate when his concluding paragraph and test results say the opposite?

He does say that 'Only the most expensive and well made plate armour wearers would have had an advantage', erm... where did that claim come from? Considering he never tested any armours like that in his experiment, and all the ones he did test vs needle bodkins were pierced. I know the science behind his test was shite, but if he's going to ignore his own results then why did he even bother pretending to do an experiment?
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Offline Paul

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Re: Agincourt
« Reply #170 on: September 04, 2015, 01:27:06 PM »
+1
The biggest problem I have with simulating a high poundage bow at distance with a lower draw weight at almost point blank is the impact angle. The short distance shot has a perfect 90 degree angle that penetrates the front vertical part of the armor. In reality the only parts that could be hit with such an perfect angle on distance(air friction) are the shoulder parts of the armor and the helmet - areas that would be exceptionally thick for obvious reasons(melee). Other parts would be hit in a less-than-ideal way with then increased effective armor thickness and would lead to more bounce-offs than the point blank test suggests.

On the other hand at close distance the inner oscillation of an arrow should be way bigger than after 100 yards which could occationally lead to bounce offs that wouldn't happen with a settled down arrow at distance. This one is highly speculative though and probably depends on a lot factors like oscillation frequency compared to the translational velocity.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2015, 01:35:04 PM by Paul »

Offline Macropus

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Re: Agincourt
« Reply #171 on: September 17, 2015, 03:02:10 PM »
+2
An interesting discussion on Agincourt battle.