Author Topic: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide  (Read 20339 times)

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Offline Ronin

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The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« on: June 23, 2012, 11:06:31 PM »
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Prologue
First of all welcome to my guide. This is my first self-created guide in crpg forums, hope you will like it. Additionally, english is not my native language so I hope you ignore the grammatical and typing stuff.
The main reason why I started playing as a hoplite is, I got bored. So I tried STF, get frustrated at first then it turned out to be amazing. After seeing myself successful and not seeing any similiar guides, I thought to myself "why I do not write the thing myself?"


Disclaimer
(click to show/hide)

"By the Sword and By the Spear!"

What is a Hoplite?

Hoplite (Greek: Hoplites) is a troop used in ancient greece times, mainly as heavy infantry. Alexander The Great used hoplites as the backbone of the army and achieved great success. Moreover, if my sources aren't completely rubbish, some philosophers in ancient greece took place in the army as hoplites. In cRPG, the players who use spear alongside with a shield are called hoplites. Since this game is not focused on the ancient greek times, but takes place in the Medieval Era; where levied poor folks mostly used spear alongside with a shield, hoplites are mainly considered as "lame" infantry not "heavy" infantry. In cRPG they are called as "spartans" or "phalanxes".
Note: I might be wrong with these. Not really that sure.

Then why play as hoplite? I mean why we use a spear alongside with a shield?

There are many answers to this. But bee sure of that, not all of them are "but it's fuuun" :)

But of course, the first one is "it's so much fuuun" :D

As for other reasons, the main advantage of hoplite is, it allows to user to have a long weapon and a shield; both at the same time! So if we think of that, it can even be considered as cheating. After all your weapon has more reach than greatswords and you basically have an omniblock machine who also protects you from arrows and other nasty flying objects.
The sad part is, what above are exactly true; there are also these factors: you have low damage capabilities and you can only attack from one direction. That attack direction is thrust attack, which can be the worst of all 4 directions that it can glance easily and leaves the attacker with a nasty stun when trying to recover from the swing.

I think these explanations define the role of a hoplite. Hoplite is a supporting class. It is for those who value the teamplay, which explains why the number of Hoplites is so low.

Hoplite Game Mechanics
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-The speed bonus has it's most impact on thrusting attack overall (mostly because damage is low and mainly pierce damage, I presume). So, you will deal more damage when you are faster.
-Turning speed is nerfed and polestagger is removed. Yes, these were truly an asset to the hoplite. But real men doesn't require cheap tricks to success!
-Polearms lose 15% of their damage and swing speed when they are used with a shield. Eh, everything has it's tradeoff.
-Yet they gain more reach when used with a shield. For polearm animations:
Polearms :
+0   Stab
+15 Overhead
+23 Right
+15 Left
+30 If you stab while mounted or holding a shield
Meaning you get extra 30 reach compared to normal pole thrust.
-All spears deal pierce damage. Which means you can still be effective against heavily armored foes if you strike hard (with either high power strike or high speed, perhaps both). Hitting the head, or legs (if not highly protected) can be a good idea too.

Overview
Now a brief overview
Pros
+ Long Reach - Awesome for teamwork in melee combat
+ Shield
+ Good Defensive Capabilities - both for you and your teammates - The ability of reinforcing shieldwalls - The ability of protecting yourself from ranged fire
+ Good in crowd combat
+ Being percieved as weak, in the eye of others (generally speaking). Underestimated mostly in 1v1
+ Anti-cavalry

Cons
- Low damage comparatively (though it makes it up with great reach, pierce damage and speed bonus)
- Slow attack speed
- Not for newbies
- Can be considerably weak in low levels (might not be true after lvl20 server)
- Relies on teamwork to be successful, therefore the team itself (does still better than cavalry and ranged without teammates)

As it can be seen, hoplite class offers an advantage in every type of combat and has a mechanism to counter every type of class (ranged, cavalry and infantry). This is what makes hoplite quite powerful, and the most powerful type of infantry in my opinion.

Builds
"Then we fight in the shades"
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Athenian
The Champion of Pallas Athene
(click to show/hide)


Hypaspist
The Champion of Ares
(click to show/hide)

Spartan
The Champion of Ares
(click to show/hide)

Battle Hardened Hoplite
The Champion of Ares
(click to show/hide)

Equipment
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"Troy conquered by dory"

Your equipment should consist of 3 or 4 parts: spear, shield and armor. Additionally, you may want to use a 1handed sidearm.
Dory
Now, in here, I will tell you of remarkable spears that can be used with a shield.

Sheatable Spears

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If you're planning to use your 1handed weapon, more than usual, you might want to pick one of those. This way, you won't have to drop your spear to the ground when you want to use your 1handed.

Red Tassel Spear and War Spear - Their only difference is 1 point of damage and 1 point of speed. Both are very useful, but are very similiar. If you want to play as a regular 1handed-shielder, but also do well against cavalry these are the best weapons for you. They do good mainly with all build. They can be swing in 4 directions when not being used with a shield.

Double Sided Lance - It is a good choice for those who do not want to have a very long attacking reach. It has  very good damage capabilities, and average speed. It might be short among other spears but it's definitely not a short weapon. With a shield, it has a range closer to the greatswords (should a bit more longer). Can be a very good choice for a hoplite, it's a bit expensive though. It can be swing in 4 directions when not being used with a shield.

Battle Fork - It has a bit more reach than the Double Sided, but a bit slower. There is not much of a difference in two of them. A difference that it can be swing in 2 directions when not being used with a shield.

Unsheatable Spears

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If you're thinking of using a spear mainly, then the best choice for you might be among these. Of course, do not get the meaning that you are abandoning your one handed weapon if you use an unsheatable spear. It is completely doable to drop your sper, switch to your one handed, finish your job, then take the spear from the ground, and continue. Do not forget that, your life does not depend on picking your spear from the ground as well. Sometimes you can not return to the place where your spear is, if that happens you can leave it where it is and play with your sidearm; simply as a shielder.

Ashwood Pike - The most balanced weapon for a hoplite and the best choice if you ask me. It's not short or long, slow or fast. The damage is also pretty good. Suits well to all builds.

Bamboo Spear - The one with the lowest damage, but also the longest and the cheapest. If you're a fan of length, try it. It's completely not useless and is worth giving a chance. I have used one of these, it is possible to tickle the enemy from afar only to leave them open to a devastating blow from a Danish Greatsword. I have used this in a strategus battle (siege-defenders side), I was the one who can push the enemy ladders that my teammates could not reach, and the one to weaken the enemy soldiers when they think they're out of our melee range. Simply: deserves a chance.

Light Lance - Although not as long as the bamboo, it has a better damage. It might be the best choice for those who find bamboo doing pretty low damage, but also want to strike from afar.

Lance - Now this is a really slow weapon, but has a better damage and a better bit of a length compared to the Light Lance. If you tried both bamboo and light lance, but didn't like them; maybe try this as well.


*You must take weapon weight into account too. As your weapon is longer and heavier, it will be harder to turn it once you released your attack.*

Aspis (Hoplon)
Shields I'd advise you to use here. Do not forget that those that are 8 weight or higher take two slots, the lighter ones require 1 slot. Bucklers require 0 slot.

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Board Shield - The best shield for Hypaspist in my opinion. The 3 shield skill will allow you to get no better shield. Those that are less expensive than this shield, will generally splinter rather fast. Also it is like a wooden door, that you don't need to concern of coverage. It weighs 8, but if you want to use this shield, you're already a Hypaspist that only uses spear+shield. Your only concern could be Skilled Arbalestiers that can penetrate your shield, but since you will have high amount of HP and armor this is less of a threat.

Other Shields - If you stick with the path of Athenian, I'd suggest using one of these shields. Sword+Shield+Spear requires you to use no heavier than 1 slot shields. Since you will have 7 shield skill (or 6 depending on your choice) you won't require a heavier shield. For the Hoplite look, Elite Cavalry might be a good option.

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Steel Buckler and Round Steel Buckler - I think these deserve a special mention, because of their unusual style. With 7 shield skill, they will last long and protect you fairly well. Even though, be prepared they can be torn to pieces faster than others. Despite their weakness, they are a good choice due to their low weight and blocking speed. Not a weak choice.

2 slot shields, they are certainly fine now if you are not planning of hybridizing. Even if you want to be a hybrid, you can still use a 0 slot sidearm as there are quite good ones now.

Xiphos - Kopis
Your 1handed sidearm.

You can pick whichever you want, it's your own choice. If you have a low STR character, blunt and pierce are the best choices; or a high damaging axe might be a good choice. If you insist of using a sword, high damaging swords such as arabian cavalry sword or military cleaver are the choices for you. Since you have good athletics in that occasion, thrust oriented swords such as Long Espada Eslavona are useful as well.
Note that: Iron War Axe requires 16 STR, so you can not use it with the Athenian build.

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Note that, now there is a new mechanic called dagger quick draw; which you can use with "N" key. This mechanic; If you have a dagger, allows you to equip it quickly by pressing the N key. If you are having timing difficulties when drawing your sidearm out, you can try using a dagger as a sidearm. Needless to say, all daggers are 0 slot and are quite capable in melee even without any wpf invested in one handed weapons. It can be a very good way to fight back when you are forced to do 1v1.


The good thing with the upkeep is, even with 1 wpf; the chances for your sidearm to be broken is dependent on the highest wpf value in melee. Meaning that if you have 140 wpf in polearms but only 50 wpf in one handers, it will break as often as your spear; no worse.


Linothorax
Armour
Just wear what you want. Note that, High STR builds seem to favor the heavier armor types; especially those who are not relying on manueverability such as the Hypaspist. For AGI based characters medium armor or light armor is generally better. All in all, it is your choice.

Gameplay and Strategy
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"Live by the sword, die by the sword. What about the spear?"

Follow the main group
Do not forget this, you only have one attack direction. So, in 1v1 your foe can easily block your attacks with an automatically made downwards block. If you want you can always use a side arm or swing your spear with two hands, but if you want to do 1v1 character; let me remind you that you have choosen the worst guide to read.


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Because of this, always follow the main group. Teamfights are where you will truly shine.

Follow the course of battle
As a supporting class, learn to follow the battle. Here you go, a simple question: in which way do you think the main group will go?
(click to show/hide)

The right side seems a bit abandoned.
(click to show/hide)

Whereas there are folks dancing here. Take a look at this adversary, he's truly dancing among my teammates. My poor teammates fail to hit him, they need my help.
(click to show/hide)
When I took this SS, that skilled foe was about to jump between my friends. I estimated his move, and stabbed him in the arse from afar. I couldn't take the picture of it at that moment, but I can say that he didn't survive against the angry mob after my hit. If I wasn't there, I do not think our foe would survive at all. Because he was vastly outnumbered. But at least, I stopped him from causing some harm or even bringing death to my teammates. I removed the threat instantly.

The ability of observing the battlefield and generally sticking to your teammates also offers you the power of being in the right place in the right time. This way you won't be the straggler (noob) to be easy prey to the wolves (cavalry). This is something easier to achieve with a high AGI oriented character such as the Athenean and Spartan, but characters similiar to Hypaspist would better do their best to estimate the course of battle a bit earlier.
Do not forget that the teammate you're sticking with can die as well. If you're sticking with newbies, they may die fairly quick leaving you alone and susceptible for an attack. So it is better to stick with the main crowd, rather than following a single teammate. Even if you follow a very experienced player, he might die to arrows or crossbow fire.

Crowd battles
Now, similar to all shielders; stay in defensive stance most of the time. Whenever you get a chance to strike, then strike! If an enemy has picked you as a main target and getting closer, try not to retaliate just defend with your shield, unless you are sure you outnumbered him. Wait for one of your teammates to attack him, so his attention will be towards your ally. When his offensive attention is not on you anymore, PUNISH HIM :twisted:

Change targets
In a fight, do not attack the same enemy always. If you make the situation 1v1, your enemy will just downblock. Pick different targets so you won't raise their awareness.
Let's say it is a 2v2 fight. Naturally you paired off with the enemy. It is a golden rule in melee to attack the opponent of your ally, rather than yours. Your advantage here is, it is easier to this as a hoplite due to great reach.

If you are sure your attack is going to get blocked, don't bother attacking at all. Hold your attack by forcing him to defend or switch targets.

Know your teammates
Your best allies are, twohanders/polearmers, maulers are even better. They have a good reach and have the best damage, so they never give the enemy the chance to play offensively. When the enemy can not kill one of you fast enough, they will have to deal with 2 attackers at once quickly.

Additionally when holding a place, there is a trick you can do with your teammate. You stay in front and your ally hides behind a wall. You pull the enemy towards you, they generally think you as an easy target and rush in, your ally crack their skullbones with a maul. Sometimes the enemies don't rush in, but they always got their skullbones crashed in the end.
(click to show/hide)

Also for archers and especially crossbowmen, they are not your best friend but you certainly are for them. Both being anti-cav(defensive) and anti-ranged(defensive), you can protect them from most of the threats. Just try not be outnumbered and retreat when needed.

Protect your teammates from the evils of arrows
As a shielder, do your duty, prevent the ranged missiles to do harm to your teammates as much as possible. But when doing this, also do not forget about the first rule. If you and your crossbowman friend are about to be attacked by 4 infantrymen, do not stay there. If your ally is not running away it's his own fault not yours. Two of you would just die if you try to defend him, which has to be a sucker noob anyway.

Shieldwalls
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The most efficient way to protect your teammates against arrows, is forming up a shieldwall. The benefits of a shield wall is, you will stay together as a large group and shield bonus makes your shields much more durable that it surely becomes a wall. As a shield using lad, take your place in the shieldwall.

Confined spaces
In places where not many place to move, your spear will be less of use. These are tight corridors, gatehouses, towers, passages etc. Since it will be most likely crowded, if you're trying to hold the position against the enemy, there will be teammates everywhere. So you won't be able to move fast to get the benefit of speed bonus, and if you're not in the frontline there will be teammates always staying or jumping in front of you. Try to using your shield as a main tool in these places, hold the frontlines if possible. If there are any, use your sidearm. If there's not, try to defend a certain position, and use your spear only when an opportunity presents itself.

The wooden door with holes
Another advantage of using a long weapon is, you can always attack through the wooden doors that has holes in it. With a bit of a practice, you can easily get the hang of this.
(click to show/hide)

When you're attempting to do this action, there will be mostly some enemies behind (heh :P ). So there might be also some archers, throwers etc. So don't overdo it, or they will aim at you. Do it when they are not expecting it, and... don't overdo it.

Use your autoblock
Your shield can stand up against everything but mauls, use it. Hold down passageways, push into enemy formations when needed. The general shielder rules apply here, be in move constantly to not get kicked. When you have been attacked while your spear is equipped, backpedal and hold right mouse button until someone helps you or create an opportunity to switch to the other weapon (or weaponmode, such as twohand-polearm). It is generally hard to do well in 1v1 with a spear. Although it can be hard, it is not impossible too.

Tricks and tips to do 1v1
It is quite possible to do 1v1 as a hoplite, although it is generally a bit harder.

1-Unless you are using a very short and fast spear, you can get spammed. However by excellent footwork you can avoid being spammed even while using a comparatively bigger spear. There is a trick which helps against everyone. If they can not put you in the center of their screen, they can not attack you. So there's your chance, try to strafe to the sides all the way so they will have a difficult time putting you in the center of their screens. This will cause them a delay in their attacking, which is more than enough to give you the time required to attack them back. By using this method, you can even catch them off guard if they think they can just spam you. With this method, you can fight back against those pesky maulers. Their heavy weapon weight will be turned against them, as they will not be able to change their attack direction fast enough when you strafe to the sides. Dodging with this technique against a maul overhead is guarenteed! You can hit them easily that way!

2-Always avoid making them to get ultimately cose to you. They must not facehug you, or your attacks will get glanced early in the animation; which is even worse as it will cause you a stun for a long period of time, long enough for you to get hit. Using the above trick will automatically solve this problem, however you need to be careful still. If the enemy is just facehugging you, defending with your shield is your best option.

3-Kick can be your friend. If someone is at close range and you are sure of it's movement, then use kick. Can be pretty rewarding as you have the longest weapon probably, thus the enemy will be coming close to you most of the time. Use at your own risk though.

4-Learn how make your attacks hit early in the animation. This is even called lame by many people, but it is the only way you can fight back in 1v1 most of the time. This one is hard to tell really and requires some practice. To explain it in simple ways; you need to begin your attack in the right or left side, and then to turn it swiftly towards your opponent. This is the basic definition of it. Observing good hoplite players when they are doing it and trying to do the same thing is the best method of learning I can tell you of.

5-The nudge button. I am still not quite good at using it the way it is supposed to be used I think, but it certainly looks like a mechanism worth learning.
Defend+Nudge - Probably the nudge you will use most commonly. It can be good to push back opponents if you want to put some distance. It can be used with great effect in siege, to push back the enemy from the walls. Though it is very slow that you need to be sure that you will not get hit. I think it is best to use this nudge like you would use an attack, meaning that you better use it right after you block your opponent's blow (like you would do an attack)
Attack+Nudge - Very much the same with defend nudge, the only differense is it pushes your opponent to the left side and is a bit quicker.
Nudge - Can be good to interrupt your opponent, when your opponent is swarmed by your teammates. Can be better than a kick as you can use it while still moving. And it can be better versus other nudge types for a situation like this (your opponent being swarmed), as the other nudges tend to push your opponent way too much that your allies can not hit your opponent.

6-Using sidearms. Well I explained how to use sidearms already, you can either pull out a sword, axe, mace etc. with changing weapons; if you are confident that you will not get hit during the weapon changing process. Or you can quickly draw a dagger. It can be certainly useful to surprise your opponent.

7-Jump attacking can be an option sometimes. Jumping gives you some room for attacking. Can be good as a plan B.

Know your Weaknessess and Strengths
Know your advantages against other classess so you can abuse them. Know your disadvantages, so you can avoid them.

Hoplite and other classes
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Infantry
Thinking 1v1, you are always at a slight disadvantage. If you go with the build Athenian or something similiar, I suggest using sword+shield. If you choose something like the Hypaspist, you have to rely on your heavy armor and spear. Since this is one on one fight, you can put the shield on your back.
However, you can turn the tides in a teamfight if your allies can withstand against the enemy.

As the two types of infantry, shielder and non-shielder. Shielders are always harder to pick off in team fight, but they are also less of a threat to you either. Unlikely non-shielders are easier to pick off in a team fight, but they pose a larger threat to you as well. Two handers can devastate you with an overchamber, so be extra careful about this possibility.

Archer and Crossbower
If you choose the Athenian path, your shield can protect you from them and with good athletics you will be able to chase them. Even though you can't catch them, they won't be able to kite you either. But never be arrogant, you can not actively deal with two ranged offensively at once. You will just be crossfired.
If you're Hypaspist, I don't think chasing them will offer any results. Also do not forget your shield can be penetrated by bolts. All in all, your shield generally offers a good protection against ranged but against DaveUKR, I think it can only reduce it's effects.
But don't forget with, 30 STR, 7 ironflesh, heavy armor and a board shield YOU'RE A FUCKIN TANK MAN!

The general rule is, you are not advantegous against ranged at all, but they're not to you either. You're simply a defensive counter to them, not offensive. This game uses a rock-paper-scissors logic, but it uses very different version of it; not a straightforward one. Well so, you won't have to worry about archers as other classes, but they probably won't worry about you as well. Unless you trapped them in a corner :twisted:

Cavalry
It can be said, you are at an advantage at them but not a very significant one. Similar to archers, you are a defensive anti-mechanism to them and similar to archers you can get harmed by them if you're not covering your sides. But all in all, they have to get close and risk their lifes to be effective while archers are not.
In a fair situation they should not be able to beat you. Never. You can hit their horses to stop them before they can hit you. Be careful though, if you're using a short spear such as double sided lance. Don't forget that hitting their horses do not disrupt them whem they're attacking you. Also, if you have to deal with 2 cavalry this can be serious threat. Even if you can fight against them efficiently, they can be dangerous.

Thrower
If you're an Athenian, you are at a big advantage, you can even be their nightmare. No matter what shit they throw at you, your shield won't break. Which means a waste of ammo for them But the funniest part is, throwers have to get into close range to be effective. Even worse, they generally have to have a high STR value to be effective; meaning they will have lesser AGI than you. Once they got close, you can kill them before they can throw a mace in yer face, thanks to your long attack range. If they try to run away, you are faster than them.
If you're Hypaspist, your shield might not stand up for long or it will be heavily damaged in the end. Even if that may not be a problem for you, you hardly pose any threat to them either.

Horse archer and Horse Crossbowman (and perhaps horse throwers?)
Yes you have a shield, but that will give you less protection compared to other forms of ranged. Because missile cavalry do not fight fair. They will try to flank you and try to put some arrows into your back or sides; mostly when you're trying to fight with the enemy.

If it turns out to be a duel with the missile cavarly, than it means they're gambling. They would try to bump+shot you, or shot you in your first attempt of attack. To prevent this rare occasion, try to manuever and be a hard target for them. Be on the move, go into their blind areas if possible. Just make them miss or not be able to shot you, the rest is easy.

Maulers
These are your biggest nightmare. If possible, don't allow them to get into close range. Once he is close enough, he can just block your attack and crush your bones. Or worse, they can chamber block you easily. Or worse, they get into close range to make your attacks glance and your bones crushed. If you have to fight with them 1v1, using spear+shield is the last thing to do. Other than that, they are the classical vulnerable 2handers in a team fight and are slow mostly because of wearing heavy armor.

I have already told you of a method how to deal with maulers. Now it is a class that I can deal with great ease. They are easier to deal with, compared to other type of infantry once you learned how to fight against them.

Game Modes
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Based on my experience, hoplite can do well in all gamemodes in different ways. You just need to change your tactics and strategy sometimes.

Battle
In battle, you can be very useful. First of all, follow the main crowd and utilize yourself in the teamfights. Sometimes even tickling your enemies is enough. Protect your teammates from cavalry, from ranged missiles. Protect them as much as you can, but firstly protect yourself and survive. Don't play the lone wolf. Participate in shieldwalls.

Siege
In siege, you won't have to stick with the main force. Because there will not be any. There will be places where the main battle takes place instead. Just try to be useful at these main fights. Since it is a semi-deathmatch gamemode, you can hardly have a problem to find an ally to stick with. Also, you can do the trick with the wooden door. Other then that, there are more places where less manueverability is offered so you can switch to another weapon or find a more defensive role. Hypaspist is a very strong character for the siege, but Athenean is not weak either.

Strategus
If you can find a spear to use with a shield, then you can be hoplite and will do very well in that case. Especially in sieges, you can be very effective due to your long attacking reach. Your only problem can be finding a spear, since not everyone knows this ancient power and craft good items intentionally for hoplites. However, you can play as 1hand+shield and/or polearmer depending on your build as efficiently as others, so it is not a grave situation either.

Though the metagame now appreciates hoplites, it is generally common to find a decent spear in battles.

Rageball
In rageball, the most important factor is to hit the enemy and cause him to drop the ball. Additionally, many people wear light armor in rageball; you can deal much better damage to them. Hypaspist might be a bit slow for this gamemode so it is better suited for defensive roles, but Athenean can be really useful in all roles including the keeper.

Defend the Virgin
You don't have to play as hoplite, just because you're hoplite. Similar to strategus, you can use 1hand+shield, polearm, pike, spear+shield whatever you are proficient with. Since you are playing against bots, individual fighting skills and stats offer less of use here. The strategy is important.
While I was a horse archer, with 0 PS, 0 ATH, 0 IF and 1 wpf in poles; I have played with a pike and I was truly useful. Use what you wish. Just make it work, and don't die like a stupid noob.

Duels
Duels?Well.. good luck with that.

Scores
"Seeing is believing"

If you still do not believe me that hoplites can be useful, let me show you how efficient it could be.

Eu 3 - Siege - Attackers/Defenders
(click to show/hide)
Strategus - Siege - Defenders (After finding a deadly bamboo spear on the ground, everything has changed)
(click to show/hide)
Sultan Eren - Duel
(click to show/hide)
Of course scores prove nothing, what I'm trying to show here is; hoplite can achieve good results. It is not a weak class as many think. It is the only evidence I can show. So what I mean here is not that you can make good scores in all the time, I'm trying to show it is possible to achieve good results. Just play well with it.


Good Luck!

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Thanks
-To Sultan Eren, for showing me the Hypaspist build
-To Turboflex, for saying which shields are 2 slot
-To callahan9119, for advising me to use the Light Lance
-To Arkonor, for showing weapon reaches


I will improve this guide as the time passes. I also tried to correct my weird english as much as I can. It's all for now though.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2014, 06:26:14 PM by Ronin »
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Seems the fascists are gaining ground once again in UKR... right vving politics is SO bad for the general populace but STILL in times of trouble the uneducated turn to them for help, simply because they are so amoral they vvill supply those vvilling to fight vvith vveapons rather than knovvledge.

My UU key is broken incase you can't tell :D

Offline Ramza

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 11:18:46 PM »
+2
Very informative and inspired me to make a hoplite. Bookmarked for future use.  :mrgreen:

Offline Sultan Eren

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2012, 01:54:36 AM »
+4
Hoplites of all clans, unite!  :idea:
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Offline Zanze

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2012, 10:08:49 PM »
+2
Very well written. Have a pseudo hoplite this gen, going full hoplite the next. Am basically following the Athenian build to the teeth, except running 5 IF 5WM instead of 7 and 3. Purchased a +1 light lance from the market for dirt cheap simply for that 1 extra damage point. Going to have to flip a coin on whether or not to loom my shield or sidearm first.

Also, I just want to give a BIG hint hint on how the athenian build WILL hit hard. I showed off on the Duel server the other day where someone thought speed bonus was useless. He wore a coat of plates, I stabbed him in the chest while immobile. ~15% damage. Ran back, charged forward and added a jump at the end for some flair. ~60% of his health gone in that one hit. That was also with him being immobile. I have no doubt he would have died if he was charging at me as well. That was a BODY hit. Once you master the control of your spear, 80% of your hits should either meet their face, or if they have wrapping boots and plate armor, their feet.

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2012, 12:14:25 PM »
0
nice guide  :wink:
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Offline Ronin

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2012, 12:44:05 PM »
0
Thanks :D

Very well written. Have a pseudo hoplite this gen, going full hoplite the next. Am basically following the Athenian build to the teeth, except running 5 IF 5WM instead of 7 and 3. Purchased a +1 light lance from the market for dirt cheap simply for that 1 extra damage point. Going to have to flip a coin on whether or not to loom my shield or sidearm first.

Also, I just want to give a BIG hint hint on how the athenian build WILL hit hard. I showed off on the Duel server the other day where someone thought speed bonus was useless. He wore a coat of plates, I stabbed him in the chest while immobile. ~15% damage. Ran back, charged forward and added a jump at the end for some flair. ~60% of his health gone in that one hit. That was also with him being immobile. I have no doubt he would have died if he was charging at me as well. That was a BODY hit. Once you master the control of your spear, 80% of your hits should either meet their face, or if they have wrapping boots and plate armor, their feet.
That is exactly true. This is another reason why the hoplite can be powerful. It basically pierces through even the heaviest of armors with good speed bonus.. Since pierce weapons are generally shorter to their cutting counterparts, it is another good part of being a hoplite. You have much more reach.
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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2012, 01:02:53 PM »
0
Nice guide. I'll make sure to get an alt with a similar build. Just need to make me creating an alt. :D
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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2012, 01:10:01 PM »
0
Very great guide!

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2012, 01:21:51 PM »
0
Protip - try using first person view at times, gives much better precision and control. Works great, when you are surrounded by allies on both sides in a line vs line clusterfuck or have to make stabs through and around hard obstacles. Especially true when stabbing through portcullis'es (the holed gates, lol).

Offline Sir_Ironlake

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2012, 02:43:43 PM »
+1
Thanks for the guide, made a Sultan Eren build inspired STF char and had loads of fun as heavy spearman.

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2012, 04:59:11 PM »
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You forgot to mention the "Spear" once i made an hoplite with a mw Spear 21/18 it was awesome
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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 02:51:39 PM »
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awsome guide. I think aim gonna make an hoplite, only spear, alt, char  =D

Offline Ronin

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2012, 06:21:54 PM »
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You forgot to mention the "Spear" once i made an hoplite with a mw Spear 21/18 it was awesome
Please explain a bit more. What was your playstyle, strategy. I'd like to give it a try :)

By the way, some new extra add-ons will be coming shortly. It is just, that I have learned even more things about hoplite. But fear not, you'll get a full changelog so you won't have to look for the extra parts :wink:
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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2012, 05:09:33 AM »
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Regular spear can't rear horses and I don't trust fear factor alone to keep cav away :(

Otherwise, good stuff. Light Lance is still OP for this =D

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Re: The Sword and Spear Way - Hoplites Guide
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2012, 06:19:53 PM »
0
Please explain a bit more. What was your playstyle, strategy. I'd like to give it a try :)

By the way, some new extra add-ons will be coming shortly. It is just, that I have learned even more things about hoplite. But fear not, you'll get a full changelog so you won't have to look for the extra parts :wink:

Ok first I post the full build


LVL 30
STR: 21
AGI: 18

Converted: 8 Skillpoints to 4 Attribute points

Powerstrike: 7
Shield: 6
Athletics: 6
Weaponmaster: 4


WPF in pole: 138


the stats of a mw spear are

Speed:99
Length: 135
Thrust: 30 Pierce
Swing: 19 Blunt
Weight: 1.4
Upkeep: 258 Gold

My equipment:

MW Spear+ Elite cav shield
Mail gauntlets+ +3 Light Kuyak
Khergit leather boots (^^)
Nordic Helmet

My playstyle was like I used my shield vs archers and when I fought vs noobs until I fought a good player then I ve put my shield on my back (You can't fight good players with 1 Attackdirection) well this generation was epic because I was able to make a hell lot of damage (7 ps with the damage of my spear and the wpf) and I'm still very fast (99/6 ath) and to the point of Zanze
Regular spear can't rear horses and I don't trust fear factor alone to keep cav away :(

Otherwise, good stuff. Light Lance is still OP for this =D
Well if you're good with this Spear then you can reach any horse unless they've a Greatlance then it'll be close but who uses a Greatlance? Next to noone.
Maybe this Spear is for the more experience players dunno
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