Author Topic: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM  (Read 22450 times)

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Offline Cassi

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #585 on: September 13, 2017, 12:25:05 PM »
0
The Deve ran
i suspect that chadz and maybe some others are autists

Offline Fuma Kotaro

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #586 on: September 13, 2017, 12:44:21 PM »
+3
The jene dan
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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #587 on: September 13, 2017, 04:19:45 PM »
+8
Damn, haven't been here for months. Thought you all deserve to get some official info on okam strat before the "fanboys" for keeping this thread alive for over 7 months, lol. I know "deve ran" and "there is no control on the main menu", but I see some of the old crpg folks like Grandma and James checking out the news about it, so here's some.

The plan is to release the strategic map in about two weeks, and start testing publicly sometime next week. There are no issues so far, and pretty sure there won't be a delay. So the catch is that the map is pretty bare bones in the first version, so probably not everyone will find it super exciting for a couple of updates. We'll be involving the community in development after the first release like we did with some previous features, so a lot of stuff will be added from suggestions, balancing ideas, etc. Basically DIY strat as you want it if you decide to try it and leave feedback.

Some of the screenshots taken yesterday in dev test. Not public yet (click for full res):



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Offline njames89

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #588 on: September 13, 2017, 04:26:01 PM »
+3
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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #589 on: September 13, 2017, 04:51:54 PM »
0
Wow, you're really concerned you won't get the numbers coming back when you release this, lol. At least enough to engage with this thread for the first time in 7 months.

What's your personal favourite feature that will be available in this Strategic map that isn't present in Strategus?
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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #590 on: September 13, 2017, 04:57:36 PM »
+10
Pogo right now:

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #591 on: September 13, 2017, 05:10:14 PM »
+5
Wow, you're really concerned you won't get the numbers coming back when you release this, lol. At least enough to engage with this thread for the first time in 7 months.

What's your personal favourite feature that will be available in this Strategic map that isn't present in Strategus?

Right now, probably battles themselves with a new mode. There are no tiny flags you have to take down to stop enemies from spawning. A bit less freedom as to how you actually win (not counting killing troops ofc), but makes it more fun by having more defined objectives I think. The map doesn't really have crazy features yet, I'd say it's pretty basic and is mostly just fief conquest and territory domination.

From planned features probably economy and resources. Fiefs producing different resources that are required for getting stronger instead of a single currency that's used for upgrades, buying stuff, etc. Should also encourage war more, since not everyone will have access to every resource.

tbh, I'd take crpg clan over a new clan any day Heskey. You have a million times more organization and persistence with tactics, and pretty sure would rekt the rest until they figure out the map needs some dedication to win. I know that JacooB with some templars are playing now, waiting for strategic map, and some others like Grandmom are looking into it too, so I figured I'd post here if someone stopped following the game after chadz left.


edit: Strategic Map is dev name btw, we'll change it for release
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #592 on: September 13, 2017, 05:56:33 PM »
-2
With the best will in the world I'd find a Strategus map with less functionality than the paint Strategus map of cRPG a tough sell. And I don't have the best will in the world towards OKAM.

It's not personal, since I don't know who exactly is responsible for the Steam page fuckery that lasted a full year, months in limbo without a roadmap, a lack of community engagement, whitewashing the old forum, general mismanagement of the project. And it started with the old team, but it carried on after a full change of dev team which makes me think neither old nor new devs are to blame for this strategy. But with it in mind, I'd rather whoever is responsible profit as little as possible from the experience and not carry on their winning strategy to future games.

A lot of people were pretty unimpressed by the lack of updating the Steam page for a year, and the lack of clear reason why this was the case. Even fanboys werent pleased at the unnecessary negativity that generated. But hey, those people were happy that as long as it was corrected eventually with a decent explanation/apology for the delay then they'd move on. Well it changed eventually, there was no apology and no good reason why it wasn't changed earlier, but with goldfish memory in hand the people were happy to drop it. Substitute the above scenario with the roadmap and you have the same thing. There's never been an admission that the team fucked up, or an apology for a full year of false advertising. There's never been an indication that the people responsible for the above regret doing it, or that they won't continue to behave in this way.

The only thing that's changed is that we are 2 weeks away from 'The Epic' in September (once again). Don't forget the giant clock counting down the seconds to launch! Welcome back to 23rd August 2016, it took a year but you're nearly where you should have been on launch day. No harm done, just 40% overall review ratings on Steam. And although a small number of people may be excited by the prospect of a shiny not-quite-strat-map, I believe that the majority of people know when they're being fucked with. With a year of the worst reputation under your belt, and no admission of previous mismanagement or commitment to not repeat it, what exactly are you expecting to happen?



For the record, the 2 innovations I've heard you suggest:
1. Tax mechanic where tax is per person and higher the more people in your clan, to encourage the largest clans to have active players and balance steamrolling clans.
2. Specialised goods per fief making certain fiefs desirable.

Are both good ideas (mysteriously both have been suggested here many times over the years), but I understand you're already getting push-back over the idea of a mechanic that attempts to balance the largest clans.
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Offline Bugnir

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #593 on: September 13, 2017, 07:26:19 PM »
+4
I participated in discussions of potential upcoming features (map, open world), I engaged with the community because it was this community, and I copy/pasted posts made by the dev team to answer newbie questions because there was a lot of misinformation and not a whole lot of community management. But I didn't make a judgement on 'game good'/'game bad'/'game fail'/'game success', because I was watching and waiting.
You did also participate in balance discussions, one of them beign a thread on archery balance.

Balance discussions? Between 1v1 vs a bot or crashing to desktop I never had anything to add regarding the core combat mechanics. Although I did take issue with the 'make it exactly like Warband' argument, I believe ironically at the time I said 'let the team who came up with the game, make the game they want', can you see how my current view is still consistent with this now that a different team is making a different game? At best in terms of combat mechanics and proposed changes I copy/pasted statements already made by devs on a subject since there was a lot of misinformation and thread duplication at one point on the forum, and I deemed that more helpful than the usual "Use Search Function before posting" that others were in the habit of saying.
Why do you have to be so disingenuous Heskey? You participated in a thread about archery balance where players like Jambi and Tobi (actual good archers) had legit concerns about the game. One of the concerns brought up by the players was that archers would get stuck in animation if they were hit in melee and unable to draw their secondary weapon, which you responded with telling them the issue must've been noticed by the devs and probably being fixed thus that complaint wasn't valid or pointless and didnt belong in the thread. This is straight up taking a stand in defense of the developers and in the same time downplaying people with criticism (btw that issue is still in the game and probably brushed aside or considered a feature lmao). But you know what? This is not really an issue, you could've geniunely thought that the issue was worked upon at the time also if the archery bug was the only complaint in the thread I'd agree with you that such a thing might not merit complaint especially if the issue is being worked upon. There being several duplicate threads and very repetetive complaints means that an issue like this might've been best approached like you did.

That was not the only issue however as in the thread players would discuss about archery damage and complain about how aiming worked. These complaints are some of the examples you categorize as "make it exactly like Warband". The fact that it could take like several arrows to kill an opponent made it so that archers would get majority of their kills from melee, I mean when I played archer myself I would either shoot some arrows until I realized that is was pointless so I'd just draw my axe and get some kills in melee. Either that or I'd go naked archer and pretend I was an easy kill so whenever someone came to kill me I'd draw my weapons and attack them for an easy kill. In addition to the low damage there was also the issue of awkward aiming which you also dismissed as a "make it exactly like Warband" argument. I mean this is just straight up bad design. Let's say you shoot about 10-20 arrows a round you'd have to endure the bad aiming and low damage, now think of having to play a map with such inconvenience. Make it exactly like warband? Sure why the fuck not, ask yourself what archery in warband is?  It's not like it is super unique and at its core it is very basic, something basic like that can later be built upon to give OKAM its own unique twist to it. Heck isnt that how the directional system is? They increased the amount of attack directions, made it so feinting requires 1 button and not two and making chamber a button etc.
Archery should be 'easy to play and hard to master' not 'awkward to play and fuck it I might as well take out my axe and kill this retard in melee'.

This was straight up bad game design/decisions which you decided to defend, not by claiming it was good design but by constantly discrediting the opposition you would for example compare them to people complaining balance in cRPG without actually understanding their complaints at the core since you didnt play the game.
If you actually played the game and not the forum you would've experienced this all first hand I mean the whole game was filled with shit like this:

Weapons getting stuck in the ground and obstacles because weird hitboxes making battles on uneven terrain or narrow corridors absolutely atrocious.

The combat being deceptively shallow because even though you have additional directions it replaced the feature of aiming your attacks in warband. If you wanted to do a diagonal attack in warband you could stare at the ground or the sky and how you aimed your attacks could lead to all sort of insane feints. Since in OKAM all your attacks are set you actually lose options in what you can do in combat which made the combat very fucking stale and basically became all about footwork trying to get on your opponents flank so you could abuse the awkward camera system.

Shields being by far the most retarded of designs, you could just spam them and permastun them and since shields blocked strikes automatically shielders became practise dummies especially in 1v1s. Man shields also had ghost block ranges, like a friendly shielder could be fairly far behind you and when you tried to attack an enemy his shield would just block the attack even though he wasn't facehugging you or wasnt even touched by your strike.

The list goes on but the point here is that the game was in a terrible state and you decided to engage in conversations about these issues by dismissing the criticism or actively defended the design choices which most definitely is not something a person without bias would do, person who "waits and sees".

I did actively participate in a lot in threads talking about possible features and implementation of ideas for Open World/Strategic Map though, since I had a lot of interest in Open World games (and Strategus) at the time. Dont see how I've done a 180 there, if Dupre said he'd be bringing back Strategus tomorrow (or anyone said they were working on an Open World game) and wanted ideas/discussion I'd take part instantly.
Yes those threads about the open world were perfectly suited and you did contribute to them no doubt I have no issue with that. In threads like that brainstorming and theory is more valuable since we dont have the open world out yet but threads you shouldn't have taken part of are combat threads since there's no point to speculation everything is grounded in the combat which is playable. I have to remind you again that you didnt play the game which meant you had no experience of the combat, no knowledge of it. You were completely ignorant of it and yet you decided to go to a thread about combat and give your input which would've amounted to nothing and also just so happened to be in favor of the devs.

You seem desperate to paint the picture that I ever once said the game in it's current state was good. You'll find I never did. So how can my current view contradict a view I've never expressed?
I think people like you really should look into a mirror because when you point out supposed flaws in others you are just ironically describing yourself. I never said you claimed the game was good which you can still see in my post, what I said was that you defended its flaws from a point of ignorance while actively shitting on people with actual experience of the game which is in stark contrast with the image of you as a person who "waits and sees". So who is desperately trying to paint others here? You were the one who discredited players' arguments by simplifying them to "make it exactly like Warband". You are the guy who painted your opposition as irrational and stupid by bringing up Jambi (coincidentally one of the archers you argued with).
I did enjoy that Jambi took my 'An Admin Could You?' thread seriously as a desperate plea to be made admin. Including all my broken english, and a personal guarantee to never play the game and administer justice purely from an ivory tower.

How did you make a 180? Let's just take your actions into consideration and then make a judgement based on that. Together with a group of OKAM supporters you were very active on the forum mocking staunch criticizers of the game while ridiculing their complaints. Now together with a group of OKAM scepticists you you mock staunch advocates of OKAM and ridicule their arguments and devs' changes of the game on this forum.
The thing worthy of note here is when you did this, you were exclusively mocking anti-OKAM when OKAM was still fairly popular and spirit was high, then you went with a more reserved approach when OKAM transformed from shit to unplayable and support had massively declined(entire teams falling through the ground at the beginning of the round, mass pop decline leading to small boring battles) and around the time the game was empty and Donkey Crew left you started solely mocking pro-OKAM. This is why I referred to you as a conformist.



Believe it or not I am not trying to attack your person. In the end I only got one thing to say to you, just drop the act dude, I mean don't take yourself so seriously c'mon bro. Instead of denying it just embrace who you were, we all know you were part of THE OKAM SQUAD.

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #594 on: September 13, 2017, 07:32:58 PM »
+3
lol poor Pogosan.
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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #595 on: September 14, 2017, 01:00:45 AM »
+8
we get a little sweet taste of the good stuff and every one starts bringing up old grieves.  This is why we cant have nice things all this dust.

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Offline StonedSteel

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #596 on: September 14, 2017, 01:42:55 AM »
0
You did also participate in balance discussions, one of them beign a thread on archery balance.
Why do you have to be so disingenuous Heskey? You participated in a thread about archery balance where players like Jambi and Tobi (actual good archers) had legit concerns about the game. One of the concerns brought up by the players was that archers would get stuck in animation if they were hit in melee and unable to draw their secondary weapon, which you responded with telling them the issue must've been noticed by the devs and probably being fixed thus that complaint wasn't valid or pointless and didnt belong in the thread. This is straight up taking a stand in defense of the developers and in the same time downplaying people with criticism (btw that issue is still in the game and probably brushed aside or considered a feature lmao). But you know what? This is not really an issue, you could've geniunely thought that the issue was worked upon at the time also if the archery bug was the only complaint in the thread I'd agree with you that such a thing might not merit complaint especially if the issue is being worked upon. There being several duplicate threads and very repetetive complaints means that an issue like this might've been best approached like you did.

That was not the only issue however as in the thread players would discuss about archery damage and complain about how aiming worked. These complaints are some of the examples you categorize as "make it exactly like Warband". The fact that it could take like several arrows to kill an opponent made it so that archers would get majority of their kills from melee, I mean when I played archer myself I would either shoot some arrows until I realized that is was pointless so I'd just draw my axe and get some kills in melee. Either that or I'd go naked archer and pretend I was an easy kill so whenever someone came to kill me I'd draw my weapons and attack them for an easy kill. In addition to the low damage there was also the issue of awkward aiming which you also dismissed as a "make it exactly like Warband" argument. I mean this is just straight up bad design. Let's say you shoot about 10-20 arrows a round you'd have to endure the bad aiming and low damage, now think of having to play a map with such inconvenience. Make it exactly like warband? Sure why the fuck not, ask yourself what archery in warband is?  It's not like it is super unique and at its core it is very basic, something basic like that can later be built upon to give OKAM its own unique twist to it. Heck isnt that how the directional system is? They increased the amount of attack directions, made it so feinting requires 1 button and not two and making chamber a button etc.
Archery should be 'easy to play and hard to master' not 'awkward to play and fuck it I might as well take out my axe and kill this retard in melee'.

This was straight up bad game design/decisions which you decided to defend, not by claiming it was good design but by constantly discrediting the opposition you would for example compare them to people complaining balance in cRPG without actually understanding their complaints at the core since you didnt play the game.
If you actually played the game and not the forum you would've experienced this all first hand I mean the whole game was filled with shit like this:

Weapons getting stuck in the ground and obstacles because weird hitboxes making battles on uneven terrain or narrow corridors absolutely atrocious.

The combat being deceptively shallow because even though you have additional directions it replaced the feature of aiming your attacks in warband. If you wanted to do a diagonal attack in warband you could stare at the ground or the sky and how you aimed your attacks could lead to all sort of insane feints. Since in OKAM all your attacks are set you actually lose options in what you can do in combat which made the combat very fucking stale and basically became all about footwork trying to get on your opponents flank so you could abuse the awkward camera system.

Shields being by far the most retarded of designs, you could just spam them and permastun them and since shields blocked strikes automatically shielders became practise dummies especially in 1v1s. Man shields also had ghost block ranges, like a friendly shielder could be fairly far behind you and when you tried to attack an enemy his shield would just block the attack even though he wasn't facehugging you or wasnt even touched by your strike.

The list goes on but the point here is that the game was in a terrible state and you decided to engage in conversations about these issues by dismissing the criticism or actively defended the design choices which most definitely is not something a person without bias would do, person who "waits and sees".
Yes those threads about the open world were perfectly suited and you did contribute to them no doubt I have no issue with that. In threads like that brainstorming and theory is more valuable since we dont have the open world out yet but threads you shouldn't have taken part of are combat threads since there's no point to speculation everything is grounded in the combat which is playable. I have to remind you again that you didnt play the game which meant you had no experience of the combat, no knowledge of it. You were completely ignorant of it and yet you decided to go to a thread about combat and give your input which would've amounted to nothing and also just so happened to be in favor of the devs.
I think people like you really should look into a mirror because when you point out supposed flaws in others you are just ironically describing yourself. I never said you claimed the game was good which you can still see in my post, what I said was that you defended its flaws from a point of ignorance while actively shitting on people with actual experience of the game which is in stark contrast with the image of you as a person who "waits and sees". So who is desperately trying to paint others here? You were the one who discredited players' arguments by simplifying them to "make it exactly like Warband". You are the guy who painted your opposition as irrational and stupid by bringing up Jambi (coincidentally one of the archers you argued with).
How did you make a 180? Let's just take your actions into consideration and then make a judgement based on that. Together with a group of OKAM supporters you were very active on the forum mocking staunch criticizers of the game while ridiculing their complaints. Now together with a group of OKAM scepticists you you mock staunch advocates of OKAM and ridicule their arguments and devs' changes of the game on this forum.
The thing worthy of note here is when you did this, you were exclusively mocking anti-OKAM when OKAM was still fairly popular and spirit was high, then you went with a more reserved approach when OKAM transformed from shit to unplayable and support had massively declined(entire teams falling through the ground at the beginning of the round, mass pop decline leading to small boring battles) and around the time the game was empty and Donkey Crew left you started solely mocking pro-OKAM. This is why I referred to you as a conformist.



Believe it or not I am not trying to attack your person. In the end I only got one thing to say to you, just drop the act dude, I mean don't take yourself so seriously c'mon bro. Instead of denying it just embrace who you were, we all know you were part of THE OKAM SQUAD.

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LOL
cant wait to see where this conversation goes, inb4 heskey goes back into hiding.
when the only people that defend your position are gravoth and molly, you know you fucked up.

you wouldnt think there could be a title worse than OKAM DEFENDER, but "one of the three stooges of crpg" is not a good look.
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Offline Cassi

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #597 on: September 14, 2017, 01:58:09 AM »
+6
Pogosan's post = piece of meat
cRPG community = self explaining...

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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #598 on: September 14, 2017, 03:45:11 AM »
+7
The combat being deceptively shallow because even though you have additional directions it replaced the feature of aiming your attacks in warband. If you wanted to do a diagonal attack in warband you could stare at the ground or the sky and how you aimed your attacks could lead to all sort of insane feints. Since in OKAM all your attacks are set you actually lose options in what you can do in combat which made the combat very fucking stale and basically became all about footwork trying to get on your opponents flank so you could abuse the awkward camera system.

It's really triggering my PTSD talking about this shit again, but fuck me, I tried to flag this with the devs so many times. OKAM's shallow combat design literally enables you to hit the skill-ceiling in 30 hours, if not less. They can add all the strategic maps and loot boxes they want; at the end of the day, if they can't get the foundations right it will never be a game that can compete with Warband, or any other PvP melee game with actual combat depth.

IMO the game could have been successful if they were more open to changing some of the core mechanics. It honestly felt like the Donkeys only tested their new system internally and never had any input from actual competitive players that could have pointed out issues with the game's restrictions when there was still time for a combat re-work. Every time I made a comment on the deleted forum about the restrictive turn rate or laughable degrees to which attacks can be angled, it was met with some retard like Siegbert being like "but it's more realistic!!" ...because we all play this genre for realism, lol. I guess if you want a dumbed down version of Warband with additional attack directions that don't add any complexity, then OKAM's the game for you.
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Re: Donkey team no longer developing M:BG / OKAM
« Reply #599 on: September 14, 2017, 04:39:25 AM »
+1
for the strat map any clue if there is going to be speed differences in armies (as in strat where small armies could out run the big ones) or will it be more like a checkers game with specific movement values?

I will miss the ability to move around my armies wile at work.
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