Author Topic: hypocritical ruleset  (Read 973 times)

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Offline Asheram

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #30 on: October 18, 2018, 05:43:31 PM »
0
opinion from my experience as the head admin of the native battle server, from running many 200 man events for years in NW, and my observations watching other admins.

The most trouble I ever see from trolls and edge lords is when admins rule with an iron fist. The more an admin flexes their power the more a subset of players will be taking up arms against them. In the end you might end up muting or banning half a dozen or more players.

Practically speaking: I would let 1 player slur occasionally, rather than mute/ban them immediately and then subsequently have to do the same to another half dozen players taking up arms out of spite. Almost every time I see rampant flaming/racism/whatever on GK TDM, it is because an admin was too quick with the punishments. 

In my admin experience, letting players express themselves how they wish is the best way to keep things under control. The occasional slur will be thrown out, and luckily we are all grown adults so we can handle that, and personally judge the character of the offender as we see fit. Admins are not needed until it is truly obnoxious and out of control, which I find rarely happens if you let players do what they want.

Maybe you cRPG admins are so vindictive that you feel you MUST immediately punish bad behavior. That's your prerogative. You'll end up punishing a lot more players that way, not all of whom are bad people.

in other news:

god hates long mauls
And yet the native na battle server is dead most of the time and when it isnt it usually devolves into people tk in spawn intentionally and dies off.
The only decent na battle server was Ronin.
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Offline _uwu_

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #31 on: October 18, 2018, 05:48:38 PM »
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the way rules are enforced in this mod are fucked up anyways. one can get instantly muted and then banned for dropping n bombs, but won't get banned for excessive twing and tking. i'm living proof of this, as sometimes when admins are on i purposely tw and tk people in order to see if i'll get banned. the worst thing thats ever happened to me was that i got kicked by zeus. the fact that i can actually ruin the game for those around me and get off virtually scot-free while dropping a few n bombs will get me banned with ease is truly fucked
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Offline Asheram

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2018, 05:58:50 PM »
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That doesnt seem to get you kicked/banned on na battle server either uwu. Tsb Ruth, Manry and a few more were repeatedly tk in spawn every round til the server died.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 06:02:43 PM by Asheram »
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Offline Meli

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #33 on: October 18, 2018, 06:05:10 PM »
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it's hard to understand what the argument is here other than that admins should stop muting people at all. Give some examples of specific admins muting specific players over specific instances and we can better judge things on a case by case basis. Even if a muting is retroactively judged as unjust, so what?

If you act like trash in chat, you should expect to be treated as such.

The problem is that the rules are being enforced inconsistently. All that nikkle is saying is that if people are going to be punished for saying the n word, then why would people not be punished for also using slurs against narmin? Also, narmin is simply a good example, he couldn't care less about the insults. Another example could be somebody like duckie who gets shit talked daily (I am fully aware that duckie is toxic as well, but the point still stands). If the admins actually cared about discriminatory language, they would censor all forms of it, not just one word.

Offline Grytviken

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #34 on: October 18, 2018, 06:10:39 PM »
+2
I'm all for a Christian server where all forms of cussing are taken equally as serious, with mutes, followed by kicks, then 1 hour bans.

Offline Thryn

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #35 on: October 18, 2018, 07:01:27 PM »
+2
the rule isn't hypocritical, the enforcement is hypocritical. admins are expected to mute as per the rules (No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...)) for all offenses. however, if this is done, sometimes what grimsight says happens and the server erupts in "civil disobedience," leading to more mutes and bans which is a situation no one is happy about. i've also been one of the "muh freedom of speech" guys who, on principle, would have these rules tossed. but seriously, is this not a thread based on who accrues more points on the victim scale? you're upset because admins mute on their own discretion and friend is higher than muslim on the offensive chart? in our society we can argue about how all offensive remarks should be held on the same pedestal, but in reality "friend" is the higher than all other insults for obvious reasons. because of this, people are more inclined to use it to be offensive because the word is just that: more offensive than other words. given this fact, i think it's understandable why there is a difference in punishment between the two words, kind of like how 2 tws are treated differently than 2 tks.

since you also brought up narmin, people give him shit because he's a complete retard who deserves to get shittalked for the amount of mindless garbage he spews in the server. he's a bad example to use because he himself should be muted as per the rules because of how toxic he is. ***disclaimer*** narmin does not shittalk, for imo shittalk must rely on some level of banter in order to be affable (i.e. GOBBLINKING personality), where as narmin insults people.

at the end of the day, the rules aren't going to change and everyone that decides to break the rules should at lease be man enough to take the punishment. if your rule breaking goes unpunished, consider yourself lucky.

as someone who has admin and lacks a personal mute button, i can totally understand why some people get muted more than others.
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Offline Yeldur

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #36 on: October 18, 2018, 07:09:22 PM »
+5
narmin

more like

NARBLOX


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Offline _uwu_

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2018, 07:17:19 PM »
+3
narmin

more like

NARBLOX


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HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



AHHHHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAAHHAAHAHAHAHAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAAHAH

N A R B L O X

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Offline grimsight

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2018, 07:50:56 PM »
0
And yet the native na battle server is dead most of the time and when it isnt it usually devolves into people tk in spawn intentionally and dies off.
The only decent na battle server was Ronin.

NA battle was dead for a time because the Ronin admins killed it. This isn't exaggeration, they ruled too strictly and banned many well known players and inevitably killed their own community, as no one wants to play when their friends are banned.

Now NA battle is alive once again. There was no battle server up until a few months ago, when I came back to gaming and put up a server. You can regularly find 20-30 people on in the evenings.

If it "usually" devolves into tks in spawn I invite you to let me know when it happened so I can check the logs.

Offline njames89

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2018, 08:02:32 PM »
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Honestly more than anything I think its just a grey area what people find offensive. I have definitely muted a lot of people for saying offensive stuff about muslims as well as various other ethnicities/religions.

If something is bothering you report it in I chat. If its not getting dealt with screenshot and ban thread. Admins aren't perfect and aren't paid to do the job but we do as best as we can and will make an effort to watch out for other slurs as you have pointed out.

As for narmin he definitely invites a lot of shit talking his way with the various terrible opinions he espouses every time he is online. Doesn't mean he deserves racial hatred, but hes most definitely a cunt.

Offline Asheram

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2018, 08:03:49 PM »
0
Yeah I got on native a few days when crpg was dead planning to gk tdm and saw 30 ppl on battle so I went there. The very first rounds had Tsb Ruth, Manry and a few others repeatedly spwn killing. They killed me and a bunch of others then started saying I was tk in spawn and they ban polled me and I was kicked for no fkn reason. So I went and played gk tdm and 5-10 minutes later they showed up there spewing the same crap. I went to check battle pop and it was 8 down from 30 in 5 minutes.
I always prefer battle over tdm or seige but I wont be visiting na battle anymore.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 08:09:07 PM by Asheram »
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Offline Grytviken

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2018, 08:08:51 PM »
+1
Yeah I got on native a few days when crpg was dead planning to gk tdm and saw 30 ppl on battle so I went there. The very first rounds had Tsb Ruth, Manry and a few others repeatedly spwn killing. They killed me and a bunch of others then started saying I was tk in spawn and they ban polled me and I was kicked for no fkn reason.

sounds like you got owned asheram

Offline Meli

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #42 on: October 18, 2018, 08:08:56 PM »
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the rule isn't hypocritical, the enforcement is hypocritical. admins are expected to mute as per the rules (No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...)) for all offenses. however, if this is done, sometimes what grimsight says happens and the server erupts in "civil disobedience," leading to more mutes and bans which is a situation no one is happy about. i've also been one of the "muh freedom of speech" guys who, on principle, would have these rules tossed. but seriously, is this not a thread based on who accrues more points on the victim scale? you're upset because admins mute on their own discretion and friend is higher than muslim on the offensive chart? in our society we can argue about how all offensive remarks should be held on the same pedestal, but in reality "friend" is the higher than all other insults for obvious reasons. because of this, people are more inclined to use it to be offensive because the word is just that: more offensive than other words. given this fact, i think it's understandable why there is a difference in punishment between the two words, kind of like how 2 tws are treated differently than 2 tks.

since you also brought up narmin, people give him shit because he's a complete retard who deserves to get shittalked for the amount of mindless garbage he spews in the server. he's a bad example to use because he himself should be muted as per the rules because of how toxic he is. ***disclaimer*** narmin does not shittalk, for imo shittalk must rely on some level of banter in order to be affable (i.e. GOBBLINKING personality), where as narmin insults people.

at the end of the day, the rules aren't going to change and everyone that decides to break the rules should at lease be man enough to take the punishment. if your rule breaking goes unpunished, consider yourself lucky.

as someone who has admin and lacks a personal mute button, i can totally understand why some people get muted more than others.

It's always fascinating to find someone who can talk so much but say so little. This thread is about consistency of rule enforcement, not some 6d commentary on the state of free speech in our society, nor is it about who has more points on the victim scale. We've already stated multiple times that we don't personally care about insults directed towards narmin, but are instead confused as to why rules are being inconsistently enforced in regards to discriminatory language.

Offline Grytviken

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #43 on: October 18, 2018, 08:11:56 PM »
+1
It's always fascinating to find someone who can talk so much but say so little. This thread is about consistency of rule enforcement, not some 6d commentary on the state of free speech in our society, nor is it about who has more points on the victim scale. We've already stated multiple times that we don't personally care about insults directed towards narmin, but are instead confused as to why rules are being inconsistently enforced in regards to discriminatory language.

Don't worry. Once I get admin I will mute for F-Words and N-Words.

Offline chesterotab

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Re: hypocritical ruleset
« Reply #44 on: October 18, 2018, 08:17:00 PM »
+2
Still we come to the issue of lacking real examples. I don't doubt you guys when you say someone gave Narmin a dose of innapropriate chat toxicity and some admin ignored it. Let's fill in the "someone" and "some admin" with real names, couple it with a date and time so the logs can be parsed, and start getting somewhere. Without tangible information all this thread can amount to is a long winded way to say "I think the admins are doing a bad job".

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