Author Topic: Combat Mechanics  (Read 150 times)

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Offline TerrorBite

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Combat Mechanics
« on: March 15, 2019, 01:28:00 PM »
+3
Am Australian so the meta I'm around isn't well developed so correct me if what i'm saying is off.

1. Increase rotation speed to equivalent of native, based on the increased pace of crpg.
Slow rotation speed makes stabs so much weaker, especially any weapon that isn't short. Kinda screws with the meta heaps, I don't see why this is implemented. I have a hunch it's not too much slower than native if at all, but just that crpg pace is so much faster that it's relatively slower. So then my suggestion would be to increase rotation speed to fit the pace of crpg combat. Also want to note it currently restricts high level play involving angle variations, as well as standard up attacks and spins.


2. Reduce the stun on your weapon after you have blocked.
Again with the faster pace of combat, anti-ganking is harder when attacks come at you and you're able to block them all but your character can't change between blocks fast enough. I think the stun duration should be reduced to compensate for the faster crpg attack rate. Also with the first point, increasing rotation rate would help here in the same way. Also seems chambers can't be used to block attacks so well when being ganked like this either, just noting this limitation.


3. Nudges shouldn't disrupt blocks, or at least reduce the stun affect on blocks from nudges.
No blocking while kicking makes face hugging safer, which allows the punch fast attack to be abused. The punch fast attack is when someone punches and then attacks in a way that pre-holding a block still doesn't block it in time (also too fast to chamber). It seems you can only counter it back jumping away after being punched and even then it's not 100% safe. Given the guy punching isn't at huge risk, this move seems to change meta in a less fun way (won't go into in depth because I assume most would agree who deal with it).

4. Reduce attack stun to fit the faster pace of crpg.
Same as block stun problem, especially noticeable when you stab and opponent can hit you fast enough that you can't block or chamber in time. Want to also note that in native whenever you have armour and someone chambers your stab you can chamber it back, if not it means the attack is too fast and will bounce. In crpg the faster attacks makes these chambers potentially unchamberable/unblockable, punishing the player who stabs first.

Edit: Forgot to add specific suggestions, added them at the start of each point.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 06:37:49 AM by TerrorBite »

Offline Yuhmaz

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Re: Combat Mechanics
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2019, 05:38:45 PM »
-4
Long threads are not read by %65 of the users including admins,next time keep ur demands and explanations short so retarded illitetarate admins can actually read an appreciate it.

Offline TerrorBite

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Re: Combat Mechanics
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 04:12:47 AM »
0
Thanks for noting the poor formatting, I made it clearer so it doesn't require as much time to get the gist.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Combat Mechanics
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 01:39:07 PM »
+1
Am Australia so the meta I'm around isn't well developed so correct me if what i'm saying is off.

1. Slow rotation speed. Makes stabs so much weaker, especially any weapon that isn't short. Kinda screws with the meta heaps, I don't see why this is implemented. I have a hunch it's not too much slower than native if at all, but just that crpg pace is so much faster that it's relatively slower. So then my suggestion would be to increase rotation speed to fit the pace of crpg combat. Also want to note it currently restricts high level play involving angle variations, as well as standard up attacks and spins.

2. Block stun. Again with the faster pace of combat, anti-ganking is harder when attacks come at you and you're able to block them all but your character can't change between blocks fast enough. I think the stun duration should be reduced to compensate for the faster crpg attack rate. Also with the first point, increasing rotation rate would help here in the same way. Also seems chambers can't be used to block attacks so well when being ganked like this either, just noting this limitation.

3. No blocking while kicking makes face hugging safer, which allows the punch fast attack to be abused. The punch fast attack is when someone punches and then attacks in a way that pre-holding a block still doesn't block it in time (also too fast to chamber). It seems you can only counter it back jumping away after being punched and even then it's not 100% safe. Given the guy punching isn't at huge risk, this move seems to change meta in a less fun way (won't go into in depth because I assume most would agree who deal with it).

4. Attack stun. Same as block stun problem, especially noticeable when you stab and opponent can hit you fast enough that you can't block or chamber in time. Want to also note that in native whenever you have armour and someone chambers your stab you can chamber it back, if not it means the attack is too fast and will bounce. In crpg the faster attacks makes these chambers potentially unchamberable/unblockable, punishing the player who stabs first.

1. We were discussing some adjustments to rotation speed, to me it looks like WSE2 overslowed it a bit. Once we get to it - we adjust it

2. It only happens when enemy has a bigger weight weapon and strength difference. Just a natural way to add downsides to agi spammy weapons. Though it sometimes happen to get stunned even with a decent weight weapon though. Needs to be looked into as well.

3. No blocking while kicking is honestly one of the best additions to cRPG compared to Native. There is basically no reason NOT to spam kicks if you can block. Punch fast attack you mean nudge I guess. Fast nudge is almost useless and never guarantees you a free hit. Also there is a tiny window that allows you to hit enemy if he missed the nudge. And well you can counter nudge but anyway, you better find a thread that describes how nudges work and what combos can be used.

4. Chamber thrusts can be chambered back, especially easy to perform with 2h.

The most important in all these changes/mechanics is why they were implemented in the first place. Roflcopting thrust spammers with kicks is basically what can kill it for everyone. Although I agree that some things are an overkill while I strictly disagree that they're pointless.

Offline TerrorBite

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Re: Combat Mechanics
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 03:53:38 PM »
0
Thanks for the reply, I want to note you quoted my older post prior to the edit.

1.  Good stuff

2. Using two handed sword with 18 str build I had this issue but it seems you're looking into it anyway so that's good.

3. Refer to edit.
In the edit you can see I didn't mean to fix the issue by buffing kicks, but by nerfing nudges in this very specific way. The nudge fast swing isn't useless, just use a fast 1h and try nudging into a left swing while facehugging and the opponent cannot block it, even if they jump away it's inconsistent. The window where they're vulnerable is also negligible when they're so close to you with a fast weapon. I guess this isn't meta in eu, but just something I've noticed players do in au that is pretty annoying and can be fixed by reducing block stun period of a nudge.
I haven't looked into counter nudges so you might be right about a counter being available. It's probably an unpopular opinion but I'd quit before being forced to nudge to counter nudge so as not take hits in a duel.

4. I really question that.
Let's just make this more comprehensible. So let's say I use a 2h and stab someone with a 1h. They block and do a fast left attack while running into me. To be conservative let's even say I'm holding a and s while stabbing. You're saying I should be able to block right in time or do a right swing in time to not get hit? On native the footwork I mentioned is required to not get hit but doing it on crpg it's almost like I have no chance in blocking in time.
Now the situation you specifically mentioned was just when i stab and the opponent chambers. I haven't actually tested this so you might be right, about being able to chamber it back. But the reason I've never tested it is because it feels like I'd be far from being able to chamber in time, again just using the free MW 2h with 21 agi. I'm just recalling my stab being chambered with an up attack of an average speed 2h and it felt so fast paced that my character was far from finishing his stun duration to enable him to up block or up attack. But again I might be wrong, I'll test it when I play next.

Offline DaveUKR

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Re: Combat Mechanics
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 10:36:00 AM »
0
Thanks for the reply, I want to note you quoted my older post prior to the edit.

1.  Good stuff

2. Using two handed sword with 18 str build I had this issue but it seems you're looking into it anyway so that's good.

3. Refer to edit.
In the edit you can see I didn't mean to fix the issue by buffing kicks, but by nerfing nudges in this very specific way. The nudge fast swing isn't useless, just use a fast 1h and try nudging into a left swing while facehugging and the opponent cannot block it, even if they jump away it's inconsistent. The window where they're vulnerable is also negligible when they're so close to you with a fast weapon. I guess this isn't meta in eu, but just something I've noticed players do in au that is pretty annoying and can be fixed by reducing block stun period of a nudge.
I haven't looked into counter nudges so you might be right about a counter being available. It's probably an unpopular opinion but I'd quit before being forced to nudge to counter nudge so as not take hits in a duel.

4. I really question that.
Let's just make this more comprehensible. So let's say I use a 2h and stab someone with a 1h. They block and do a fast left attack while running into me. To be conservative let's even say I'm holding a and s while stabbing. You're saying I should be able to block right in time or do a right swing in time to not get hit? On native the footwork I mentioned is required to not get hit but doing it on crpg it's almost like I have no chance in blocking in time.
Now the situation you specifically mentioned was just when i stab and the opponent chambers. I haven't actually tested this so you might be right, about being able to chamber it back. But the reason I've never tested it is because it feels like I'd be far from being able to chamber in time, again just using the free MW 2h with 21 agi. I'm just recalling my stab being chambered with an up attack of an average speed 2h and it felt so fast paced that my character was far from finishing his stun duration to enable him to up block or up attack. But again I might be wrong, I'll test it when I play next.


2. Two handed sword is only 2.0 weight and 18 strength is really an AGI build, so yes, it's totally ok to get stunned with this item+attr build.
3. General opinion about nudges is that they're somewhere inbetween useless and situational. I don't consider them useless but wouldn't call them any close to be overpowered or "a must" for fights. It needs to get used to and i'm pretty sure it looks OP for players who are new to it.
4. It is all about footwork. You cant chamber overhead swing with thrust but you can simply evade the hit because of rotation speed. Also 2h thrust is an animation with one of the biggest reach (if not biggest), if you were caught by a 1h that can reach you with left swing of 1h (the shortest reach of all animations IIRC) then it's just a poor footwork or STR build that can't have any footwork at all.