Author Topic: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.  (Read 476 times)

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Offline Silveredge

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All Horses should count as 1 weapon slot, I believe this would solve so many things.  From HA arrow count to versatility of too many weapons available to cav builds and STR crutchers running around on heavy cav.  What would this break and could we make it better?  Please put in your 2 cents.

EDIT: Apparently I forgot ammo takes 0 slots now.  I don't know if there's a way to take away an empty slot when equipping a horse.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2018, 04:14:10 AM by Silveredge »

Offline Asheram

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nah all thats needed is 1 of the 4 slots require a melee/melee alt weapon to occupy.
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Online Torben

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the slot mechanisms are hardcoded,  horses cant do jack with weapon slots.

thats why non sheathable weapons were introduced,  thats why some weapons take more then one slot... 
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Offline San

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2018, 11:49:10 PM »
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Interesting idea, but there's no elegant way to do this. You'd have to add scripts for checking slots when you spawn on a horse or choose to mount a horse. If you want to mount a horse and your slots are full, should automatically you drop your weapon/shield?

As Torben said, it's easier to make unsheathable/cannot be used on horseback weapons make more sense.

Offline bensai

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2018, 11:53:53 PM »
+1
well lancer cav would be forced to play 1h/polearm or use the double sided lance as their cav weapon (lmao)

when my +3 barded gets 2 shot and even 1 shot sometimes (by ranged), i feel the only thing horses need is an hp buff
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Offline Leatherbelt

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2018, 12:13:45 AM »
+1
Why nerf cav when its already weak?

Offline Thryn

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2018, 12:55:35 AM »
+3
i've been of the mind to buff cavalry actually, it's extremely gimped especially compared with native. bumpslashes have 50% dmg reduction, the horses have weak leg bones, the hp pools and relative tankiness is low, the lancing angles are ultra restrictive, teambumping is detrimental to your inf (or a valuable asset depending on what kind of player you are lol)

i mean the only thing going for them is the ability to move fast and have a shield forcefield

most useful melee cavalry imo is morningstar cav b/c the dmg output is high, lancer cav sometimes doesn't even land kills unless it's dedicated couching weapon on a courser. i don't want to get rid of bump slash reduction (it could be tweaked ofc) because it seems like a maneuver that's less risky with high reward as compared to traditional attacks, but i would be happy to reconsider lance angles and horse armor/hp. however, lance angles might be out of our reach sadly :(
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Offline Asheram

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2018, 12:57:57 AM »
+1
Cav as with ranged only becomes annoying when there are too many of them.
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Offline San

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2018, 01:11:22 AM »
+3
The bumpslash nerf is getting reduced a tad, fortunately. The issue with cav is that there are many ways to achieve incredibly good results due to the sheer mobility of the class, even if their stats are complete ass. I don't mind making them faster since that'll be more fun, but maneuver is tightly controlled right now.

We wanted to adjust things like lance angle (and turn speed nerf) for a while but you need the original devs for some of that afaik.


Offline Panos_

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2018, 08:14:04 AM »
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Holy shit San, if you buff lance cav I would fucking destroy the eu1 sperglords even more now.

Im lovin it.
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Offline bensai

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2018, 10:40:27 AM »
+3
but what if san still played the mod and used his status as a respected member of the NA community to call upon other old respected members of the community to return??
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Offline Rando

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2018, 03:18:57 PM »
+1
but what if san still played the mod and used his status as a respected member of the NA community to call upon other old respected members of the community to return??

maybe we should get some of the less-respectable people of the community out of its highest positions of power...

well lancer cav would be forced to play 1h/polearm or use the double sided lance as their cav weapon (lmao)

when my +3 barded gets 2 shot and even 1 shot sometimes (by ranged), i feel the only thing horses need is an hp buff

to all Ben Shapiri of the forums, forgive me for saying that I feel this is some sort of issue with speed bonus being out of wack (a very general saying, yes, and to be more specific I'd say it must be that  something isn't capped properly at the moment), similar to the reason why I was able to deal Kadeth 5 bars on his 64 armor helmet (assuming it was a headshot, we can't really know for certain) in one stab of an unloomed Shortened Spear with 3 strength and 1 PS earlier. Yes, 5 bars with a +0 shortened spear stab on over 60 armor; from 3 (THREE) fucking strength and 1 (ONE) Power Strike. I'll note that the build (inspired by Asheram) had 11 athletics, although I really was not trying to put everything into this fateful stab. It was just a normal fight, neither of us trying very hard since my build was a meme, and then I suddenly struck a shortened spear stab with 1 PS that shouldn't even be possible considering I was glancing full-force swings on him.

I wonder if the fact that ranged has to be able to damage people with nearly 80 body armor all the time has something to do with cav getting instagibbed. I recall this ranged/cav speed bonus dynamic issue being dealt with before, but it seems like horses that aren't fortunate enough to have such Chad armor as the Plate Charger or Memeluk Horse haven't benefited from it enough if something like a Barded is still being 2-shot by archery.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 03:31:18 PM by Rando »
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Offline San

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2018, 04:51:22 AM »
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We always wanted to increase the lance angle, but their wasn't any feasible way. I personally don't have access to anything other than the basic module scripts and it doesn't cover that.
I think cav is plenty strong, but I'm open to any suggestions for making it more fun. I think cav should be a bit faster with the same maneuver, just my opinion though, not a balance thing.

The speed bonus for melee was toned down slightly to avoid extremities in damage since it's an exponential multiplier. Speed bonus is still OD, no doubt about that.

I wasn't here, but IIRC people complained a lot about the prepatch Camel when that was strong.

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 10:32:15 AM »
+1
San, I have been playing as a lancer for the last 5 years, let me share some of my thoughs with you.

1. IMO horses should be put into different categories, and then some more sub categories into those main categories

1. Fast and swift but weak
a. Very fast, like 55 speed but weak as hell
b. Fast but has more HP (50 speed and 110 hp)
etc etc

2. Medium speed and more resistant to damage (hp buff)
a. One good example of how this class should be its the destrier, its a bit slower than the courser but its 10 times stronges, all and all its the best all around horse to use

3. Armoured horses
No need to explain here


The steppe horse has the same speed as the plated charger for fuck sake, lol.


2. Make horses a luxury
Cheapest horse should start from 20k at least, plated charge should cost like 100k.
Making it more expensive means that it will only be played by dedicated players

3. Leave the lance angle as it is, buff the damage and the speed, remove the couch damage cap.
Truely, lance angle is not the problem, the problem is having to stab 3 times full speed a light armoured archer

4. Increase the riding skill requirements.
4 riding skill for a courser and a destrier? Nope.

What do you think about these?

I have some more in mind

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Offline bensai

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Re: Cavalry, making it take more consideration than just spawning with a horse.
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2018, 01:15:52 PM »
+1
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i agree with my brave and honorable greek friend. cav needs some very defined playstyle diversity.

i dont play cav hardcore dedicated, but it's my most played class after swashbuckler by quite a margin, and i've played gens of 2h cav 1h, cav, polearm cav, and i even did horse xbow back when i first joined frisia (when it was hella fun an enjoyable), and I can honestly say that cav feels very washed out. there's very little variety in the playstyle compared to melee, throwing, xbow, etc.

lance cav consists almost purely of hiding from archers, waiting until they are distracted, attempting to charge them, getting shot right before you thrust your lance, and sometimes getting lucky when they miss, or you just happen to be close enough to close in before they can nock another arrow (but this is rare since most maps are pretty open). contrary to popular belief of the plebes, it's not too difficult to 1v1 an infantry from the front unless they have a really long weapon, or lots of agi, or just simply out-time you.

1h and 2h cav is really good for combating other cav and taking on archers because you can get very close and still hit them without them outturning your lance (but most people can still circle your horse, but sometimes you can time your swings and horse's turn just right to compensate), but is nearly incapable of taking on infantry with an average length polearm or 2h or even 1h from the front since bumpslashes suck ass and your horse is almost guaranteed to die in the process.

if the more common horses had variety so you could elect to use something as resilient and tanky as the plated charger, but without the ABSURD maneuverability (horrific turn rate makes engaging infantry who are circling your steeeed SO difficult), a more "historic" type of melee cav could have a balanced and fun place in the game. a cav player could charge into a melee and knock over all their teammates and effectively duel someone off of horseback, using the baiting guise of the horse to open the other player to attacks, it could be so fun. AND IT WOULD GIVE ARCHERS A REASON NOT TO SHOOT AT YOUR HORSE FROM ACROSS THE MAP BECAUSE THEY WONT BE KILLING IT IN TWO ARROWS11!

now im not saying im a better player than anyone here,but im a better player than anyone here by miles and my opinion should be taken seriosuly

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« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 01:25:25 PM by bensai »
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