Author Topic: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD  (Read 45597 times)

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Offline F i n

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2016, 07:49:36 PM »
+1
oh noe. what have i done!

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Offline matt2507

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2016, 07:57:31 PM »
+1
oh noe. what have i done!

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« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 08:37:08 PM by matt2507 »
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Offline Blackbow

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2016, 08:34:48 PM »
0
oh noe. what have i done!

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thx honey

You opened the Pandora's box !

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2016, 09:04:11 PM »
+1
pimp best pomp 2k16
Your binary primitive low capacity of thinking is not relevant.

Offline Yeldur

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2016, 10:40:37 PM »
+1
Hating already before anything happened?
Naw this is just a joke thread lol, to be truthful, blackbow may dislike me but I don't dislike him, I've had many conversations with him under different alias' and we've gotten along fine, he doesn't like Krems and our fucking around, I understand it perfectly :p

Also, his hatred of pretty much every Krem is well known lol, if you didn't know that you should have spent more time in game with him and a few more of the Krems players that messed around a lot, the flames were burning way beyond hot. It's quite reasonable to assume that he'd be beginning a crusade on us lol, either way, I'm sure he'll do fine, regardless of whether the bias appears or not.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 10:47:46 PM by Yeldur »
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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2016, 10:43:54 PM »
+2
well you should say thx to fin because he's the one who pushed me to aplly as admin.
i agree fin was changing the maps and that's cool but sadly he was also removing everyday the polls... so when we had a crazy guy teamkilling his team on everyround we were not able to kick/ban his ass...

why he removed polls ? because people was abusing of polls like if it was a toy... instead of asking people to stop abusing polls and spend a bit of time to fix the trouble between players he prefered remove polls and keep playing in peace...
i can understand that after a long day of work sometimes u just want to play and dont start to make the police...

and just to refresh your memories here is the crpg rules :
Code: [Select]
These rules apply to official servers:
- EU_cRPG_x (1,2,3,4,5,6,8)
- NA_cRPG_x (1,2,3,6)

Quote

    "first rule of em all: common sense"
        ~ chadz


If your common sense is not working, here are some more specific guidelines. This is not an explicit list, common sense always overrides disputes. Do not come crying "it's not prohibited in the rules" if you invent a new creative way to be an idiot and get punished.

Behavior rules

    No offensive behavior anywhere
        Remember that this is the internet. Don't be insulted if someone calls you an idiot.
    No offensive character names. If in doubt about a name, pick another one.


General rules

    No exploiting of any kind
        NOT OK: Bypassing the autobalance
        NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits
        NOT OK: Leaving and rejoining to server to spawn more than once in a round
    No intentional teamwounding/teamkilling during a round (teamkilling friends after a round ends is allowed, teamkilling random people is not)
        NOT OK: killing the Viscount to change map
    No malicious griefing of teammates (kickspamming, blocking, etc.)
    No drawing/delaying the round on purpose (i.e. running away or camping unreachable places when you're one of the last people alive)
        OK: running away and shooting enemies that are reachable by projectiles
        NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation when there is nobody to shoot in range or everyone is behind cover.
        NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation to search for ammo
    No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...)
    No random kick/ban polls. Always specify reason before starting a poll
        OK: poll-kicking a leecher
        OK: poll-kicking an intentional teamkiller
        NOT OK: poll-kicking someone who involuntarily hurt you
        NOT OK: poll-kicking someone because you don't like his playstyle
    No leeching
        OK: Being a bad player and getting no kills
        NOT OK: Standing around away from keyboard. If you're away, switch to spectator mode
        NOT OK: Running around without no weapon. Not contributing is leeching, naked runners don't contribute. This point does not apply to Rageball, as long as you are actually playing the game.
        NOT OK: Autorunning your char to enemy to die
    Glitching is allowed, being an asshat isn't
        OK: hiding (e.g. in the hay)
        NOT OK: hiding when last man standing (i.e. delaying)
        NOT OK: using a siege shield to reach a roof that can't be reached normally
        NOT OK: camping unreachable places
        NOT OK: exploiting invisible barriers
        NOT OK: going out of map bounds (if you can see unfinished parts of the map, then you should not be there)
        NOT OK: ladderpulting
    No siege equipment spam
        OK: Planting ladders to get to roofs or walls
        OK: Blocking a door with a construction site
        OK: Planting siege shields to provide cover from ranged fire
        NOT OK: Creating a weapon rack and spawning more than a few items to block movement
    If you're stuck, change team to spectators or rejoin the server, otherwise you will be considered a leecher.


Duel mode specific rules

    All types of duels are allowed (ranged, mounted, shield, heavy armor...) if both duelists agree
    No following or face-hugging the other duelist before the duel countdown has ran out - either hold your starting position or back-pedal if you want some distance between you and your opponent
    No running away or going into unreachable places


Siege mode specific rules

    No opening the gates as defender
    No stopping on ladders and blocking your team-mates on purpose



Breaking a rule may net you a warning, mute, kick or ban at admin discretion depending on severity of rule broken and player history (yes, repeated offenders are treated more harshly). In minor offences you usually get a written warning first, in more severe cases you might get kicked or even banned immediately.

If you ever get kicked, consider that a serious warning - you are obviously doing something wrong. If you are unsure what it is, re-read these rules and/or ask the admin in question what the kick was for in a civilized manner. If you're a hot-headed type, perhaps take a few minutes to cool off before going back to shout at the admin. Same goes for all interaction with the admins, act properly and you will most likely be received better.

Voted bans last for 1 hour. These cannot be lifted by admins and are automatically removed after the time is passed.

Admin bans can be either temporary (1 hour) or "permanent". Permanent does not mean permanent in most cases, usually it's a day or two. If you are in a rush or think you have been unjustly banned, post in EU or NA unban sections (read the first post and follow the rules). Again, civilized behavior might do you some good, raging/lying just prolongs the duration of the punishment.

Admins are human too, so mistakes can happen. We are terribly sorry for not being perfect and are working on replacing all players and admins with computers for optimal performance.

Dw blackbow, I know you'll do fine as an Admin, in a more serious state I've administrated and been a lot more strict (Obviously elsewhere, not on C-RPG, but in M&B nevertheless) this is just a joke thread anyways, but so far you're doing fine in my books, who knows, maybe you don't want to ban as many Krems as you possibly can, but either way you becoming an admin is good for the server mainly because of the fact that we actually have polls now lol.
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2016, 10:39:25 AM »
0
and just to refresh your memories here is the crpg rules :
Code: [Select]
These rules apply to official servers:
- EU_cRPG_x (1,2,3,4,5,6,8)
- NA_cRPG_x (1,2,3,6)

Quote

    "first rule of em all: common sense"
        ~ chadz


If your common sense is not working, here are some more specific guidelines. This is not an explicit list, common sense always overrides disputes. Do not come crying "it's not prohibited in the rules" if you invent a new creative way to be an idiot and get punished.

Behavior rules

    No offensive behavior anywhere
        Remember that this is the internet. Don't be insulted if someone calls you an idiot.
    No offensive character names. If in doubt about a name, pick another one.


General rules

    No exploiting of any kind
        NOT OK: Bypassing the autobalance
        NOT OK: Using a bug to gain undeserved benefits
        NOT OK: Leaving and rejoining to server to spawn more than once in a round
    No intentional teamwounding/teamkilling during a round (teamkilling friends after a round ends is allowed, teamkilling random people is not)
        NOT OK: killing the Viscount to change map
    No malicious griefing of teammates (kickspamming, blocking, etc.)
    No drawing/delaying the round on purpose (i.e. running away or camping unreachable places when you're one of the last people alive)
        OK: running away and shooting enemies that are reachable by projectiles
        NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation when there is nobody to shoot in range or everyone is behind cover.
        NOT OK: running away or avoiding confrontation to search for ammo
    No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...)
    No random kick/ban polls. Always specify reason before starting a poll
        OK: poll-kicking a leecher
        OK: poll-kicking an intentional teamkiller
        NOT OK: poll-kicking someone who involuntarily hurt you
        NOT OK: poll-kicking someone because you don't like his playstyle
    No leeching
        OK: Being a bad player and getting no kills
        NOT OK: Standing around away from keyboard. If you're away, switch to spectator mode
        NOT OK: Running around without no weapon. Not contributing is leeching, naked runners don't contribute. This point does not apply to Rageball, as long as you are actually playing the game.
        NOT OK: Autorunning your char to enemy to die
    Glitching is allowed, being an asshat isn't
        OK: hiding (e.g. in the hay)
        NOT OK: hiding when last man standing (i.e. delaying)
        NOT OK: using a siege shield to reach a roof that can't be reached normally
        NOT OK: camping unreachable places
        NOT OK: exploiting invisible barriers
        NOT OK: going out of map bounds (if you can see unfinished parts of the map, then you should not be there)
        NOT OK: ladderpulting
    No siege equipment spam
        OK: Planting ladders to get to roofs or walls
        OK: Blocking a door with a construction site
        OK: Planting siege shields to provide cover from ranged fire
        NOT OK: Creating a weapon rack and spawning more than a few items to block movement
    If you're stuck, change team to spectators or rejoin the server, otherwise you will be considered a leecher.


Duel mode specific rules

    All types of duels are allowed (ranged, mounted, shield, heavy armor...) if both duelists agree
    No following or face-hugging the other duelist before the duel countdown has ran out - either hold your starting position or back-pedal if you want some distance between you and your opponent
    No running away or going into unreachable places


Siege mode specific rules

    No opening the gates as defender
    No stopping on ladders and blocking your team-mates on purpose



Breaking a rule may net you a warning, mute, kick or ban at admin discretion depending on severity of rule broken and player history (yes, repeated offenders are treated more harshly). In minor offences you usually get a written warning first, in more severe cases you might get kicked or even banned immediately.

If you ever get kicked, consider that a serious warning - you are obviously doing something wrong. If you are unsure what it is, re-read these rules and/or ask the admin in question what the kick was for in a civilized manner. If you're a hot-headed type, perhaps take a few minutes to cool off before going back to shout at the admin. Same goes for all interaction with the admins, act properly and you will most likely be received better.

Voted bans last for 1 hour. These cannot be lifted by admins and are automatically removed after the time is passed.

Admin bans can be either temporary (1 hour) or "permanent". Permanent does not mean permanent in most cases, usually it's a day or two. If you are in a rush or think you have been unjustly banned, post in EU or NA unban sections (read the first post and follow the rules). Again, civilized behavior might do you some good, raging/lying just prolongs the duration of the punishment.

Admins are human too, so mistakes can happen. We are terribly sorry for not being perfect and are working on replacing all players and admins with computers for optimal performance.

Questions about the 'common sense' rule,

Poll 'abuse':
Is it not 'common sense' that if a poll passes and the majority of the players on the server do not want to play with an individual player sufficiently to vote '1' in the poll, then that player has been doing something wrong or acting toxically in a way that has an impact on the entire server.

Unsuccessful kick/ban polls have no impact on anyone on the server. Successful ones only impact one player, and as above these polls never pass without reason.

Double spawning:
On the other hand on the 'common sense' front, admins enforce the 'no double-spawning' rule with an iron fist. And yet what impact does this have on the server and other players (if any)?

For the server as a whole, it makes no difference. They spawn during the period where new-comers to the server can still spawn, so they're spawning during the allocated 'spawn' period. The only 'offended' party is the player that got the kill, but they still get the kill and score on the scoreboard for their efforts. The only way in which this has negative impact is if the person who killed them is petty enough to kill not for their own score, but to deny the other player time in the server. I would not argue that this is a constructive attitude to encourage.

Ingame chat:
The typical admin response to anything involving the ingame chat is to 'grow a thick skin' or 'mute the offending player'. This does not seem consistent with the admin response to poll 'abuse' and double spawning where both are also easily ignorable and only effect one player at a time, whilst the entire server has to endure an idiot in the chat. Now, at the moment the only response is for *every* player in the server to ignore the clown in question and potentially hit the mute button.

Consistency?
Why do admins insist on 'hands-off' admining and a 'just ignore them' mentality when it comes to some server rules ('No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...') but rigidly enforce other server rules such as double spawning and poll 'abuse' and ban players when the impact is equal or lesser to that of griefers in chat? No admin ever says 'just ignore them' when it comes to double-spawning (that does no ingame harm to anyone, including the score of the 'offended party'), or 'poll abuse' where the poll fails (or passes with a sufficiently large majority to indicate that this player is harming the gaming experience of everyone else in the server).

'Common sense' indicates enforcing the spirit of the rules, which requires an understanding of why the rules exist in the first place. The rules are here so that individual players cannot ruin or harm the gaming experience of the other players in the server, does the current enforcement of the rules really reflect this? As recently most EU bans are requested by one or two players who constantly grief all over the server, so are these bans really protecting the experience of the majority of players in the server or just the few that enjoy griefing the entire server?
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Offline Rico

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #22 on: January 07, 2016, 11:07:54 AM »
+5
Consistency?
Why do admins insist on 'hands-off' admining and a 'just ignore them' mentality when it comes to some server rules ('No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...') but rigidly enforce other server rules such as double spawning and poll 'abuse' and ban players when the impact is equal or lesser to that of griefers in chat?

we would have to ban almost everyone if we wanted to create an environment free of insults and spam, and the collateral damage would be huge. due to free speech, these things are somewhat tolerable as long as people don't excessively antagonize each other. we react with a warning if somebody messages us through the admin chat or PM because another player is overdoing insults/spam. but we can't start muting half the population because it's hard to draw the line between zealous chatting and spam or rage in the heat of the fight and malicious insults. expect us to do nothing against spam and insults when nobody lets us know they are offended or annoyed

in my understanding, griefing does not involve the chat, but subtle, hard-to-detect actions that undermine the progress of the team. for example standing behind a twohanded or polearm player who wants to kill bots in DTV: his weapon will glance off the griefer behind him, the bots get a free hit and the shieldwall collapses. or opening the back door as a defender on siege would be a form of griefing. what is griefing about in your understanding?

according to the cRPG rules, there is zero tolerance against racism. this is consistent with their enforcement. context matters, however. saying the N word on NA might be enough to get a ban. in EU, people may not care as much because racism against blacks is not as common as in the US. on the other hand, quoting lines of fascist songs in the NA chat may not cause much trouble because nobody understands the reference, but on EU, you may get banned immediately.
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Offline Ikarus

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2016, 01:06:41 PM »
+5
Blacky as admin
Panos for events

what a time to be alive  :mrgreen:

nah, srsly, if they´re doing a good job, why not. Gratz, black-B !
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Offline matt2507

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2016, 02:15:59 PM »
+2
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2016, 03:05:41 PM »
+1
we would have to ban almost everyone if we wanted to create an environment free of insults and spam, and the collateral damage would be huge. due to free speech, these things are somewhat tolerable as long as people don't excessively antagonize each other. we react with a warning if somebody messages us through the admin chat or PM because another player is overdoing insults/spam. but we can't start muting half the population because it's hard to draw the line between zealous chatting and spam or rage in the heat of the fight and malicious insults. expect us to do nothing against spam and insults when nobody lets us know they are offended or annoyed

Being stricter with ingame griefing doesn't need to be a ban, admins can mute players who do this whilst still allowing them to play. Like any punishment, this can be used to discourage that behaviour without being stupidly heavy-handed like a ban would be.

*Consistency can be in either direction, being more strict with griefers is just one option, the other is to apply the same kind of 'thick-skinned' approach to other equally minor offenses.

'So what if the player you killed has spawned again, just ignore them', this would match the admin response to nearly all griefing. It's not like the person who killed them suddenly has 1 less kill and less score because of it, and they're spawning during the allocated 'spawn' period where any new-comers can still spawn so balance isn't harmed. Same with polls that don't pass, 'just ignore them' like the rest of us do.

When I say ingame griefing I'm not talking about standard spam or insults, more the kinds of things that lead to inexplicable kick/ban polls that mysteriously pass and the lead to ban threads about 'poll abuse'. Question, is the poll really an 'abuse' when over half the server agrees with it and presses '1'?

in my understanding, griefing does not involve the chat, but subtle, hard-to-detect actions that undermine the progress of the team. for example standing behind a twohanded or polearm player who wants to kill bots in DTV: his weapon will glance off the griefer behind him, the bots get a free hit and the shieldwall collapses. or opening the back door as a defender on siege would be a form of griefing. what is griefing about in your understanding?

According to the cRPG rules it's both:

'No malicious griefing of teammates (kickspamming, blocking, etc.)'

The above is the physical griefing you mentioned. Below is the in-game chat griefing I mentioned.

'No abuse of in-game chat (racism, insulting, griefing, spamming...)'
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 03:09:43 PM by HESKEYTIME »
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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2016, 05:44:47 PM »
+1
Being stricter with ingame griefing doesn't need to be a ban, admins can mute players who do this whilst still allowing them to play. Like any punishment, this can be used to discourage that behaviour without being stupidly heavy-handed like a ban would be.

valid point. i make sure to warn people not to abuse polls, for example.

the evidence is not always clear, however, as you point out yourself. sometimes, a reason for a poll may be stated in the dead's chat while i am alive. i have no way to find out without asking and relying on what others tell me. that sucks because friends of the offender have an incentive to lie. further, i'm still playing at the same time so there may not be time to ask because it would mean letting my team down. finding a reasonable balance between being a player and an admin is a challenge every admin must face.

sometimes i have very limited information and using my intuition is my only option in decision making. while intuition can be great at speeding up complex problem solving tasks with the exact same outcome as a gruesome lengthy analysis, it can--at least in a few cases--also lead to a decision that's terribly wrong. in unclear situations, many admins stick to the benefit of the doubt rationale, but obviously, that can be just as wrong.

that's where admins must reflect upon their mistakes. at times, an excuse is in order, and in any case, we must make sure not to repeat our mistakes. players on the other hand must realize that being admin is a learning process as well and give us a chance. if both admins and players refrain from being anal about everything that happens to them, we have a solid foundation for everyone to have fun without making anyone worse off.
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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2016, 06:59:36 PM »
0
valid point. i make sure to warn people not to abuse polls, for example.

the evidence is not always clear, however, as you point out yourself. sometimes, a reason for a poll may be stated in the dead's chat while i am alive. i have no way to find out without asking and relying on what others tell me. that sucks because friends of the offender have an incentive to lie. further, i'm still playing at the same time so there may not be time to ask because it would mean letting my team down. finding a reasonable balance between being a player and an admin is a challenge every admin must face.

sometimes i have very limited information and using my intuition is my only option in decision making. while intuition can be great at speeding up complex problem solving tasks with the exact same outcome as a gruesome lengthy analysis, it can--at least in a few cases--also lead to a decision that's terribly wrong. in unclear situations, many admins stick to the benefit of the doubt rationale, but obviously, that can be just as wrong.

that's where admins must reflect upon their mistakes. at times, an excuse is in order, and in any case, we must make sure not to repeat our mistakes. players on the other hand must realize that being admin is a learning process as well and give us a chance. if both admins and players refrain from being anal about everything that happens to them, we have a solid foundation for everyone to have fun without making anyone worse off.

Everyone's human, and anything an admin does whilst in-server is going to have to be a judgement-call and that's a good thing. On-the-spot admining.

My biggest gripe is where it comes to the ban/unban section of this forum, some forum rules seem like gospel truths and will always lead to a ban ('Double Spawn', 'Poll Abuse' etc) anything to do with chat (other than Nazi shit or legit racism) gets 'just ignore them'. For me, I don't see how one of those 'big 3' are any worse than the other, or at the very least why poll 'abuse' and spawning twice is seen as worse than goading the rest of the server. In terms of impact to the other players at least.

The only thing IMO that should *always* lead to a ban in the ban/unban section is TKing and THing, since that's very black & white, 'under no circumstances deliberately TH or TK'.

Judgement calls in server are great, that's the only way you can admin then and there when you're put on the spot. But on the forum I'd hope for a bit more uniform leniency or uniform enforcement of the rules since there's time to think and get all (or most) of the facts, and an assessment of who's really being harmed by any instance of rule-breaking sufficient to ban a player.
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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2016, 11:45:20 AM »
0
Since you're one of the biggest bundle of stickss as a player, you're not that pathetic as an admin i must say. Good thing.

I'm here to say that your effort for denying us from building shit on eu1 is just hopeless. You're just wasting your hours for nothing. We don't get mad when you do that, we're Krems dude, we don't care, we never did and we never will. Staying on spawn with us for hours is just TOPKEK. Another Krems hater slowly evolving into a Krems, keep it up.

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Offline HESKEYTIME

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Re: [EU]Blackbow FEEDBACK THREAD
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2016, 12:19:54 PM »
0
I'm here to say that your effort for denying us from building shit on eu1 is just hopeless. You're just wasting your hours for nothing. We don't get mad when you do that, we're Krems dude, we don't care, we never did and we never will. Staying on spawn with us for hours is just TOPKEK. Another Krems hater slowly evolving into a Krems, keep it up.

I do hope he doesn't attack your weapon racks or equipment in order to do this.

Since historically breaking your team's weapon racks or siege gear has been a warnable, kickable then ban-able offense if they persist
"say some gangsta is pewin´ your fly girl, you just give em one of these:"
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